So my question is financing. All of these schools are SO EXPENSIVE and many of them don’t give scholarships that are significant enough to make them affordable for us. For example, my daughter auditioned for the Manhattan School of Music last weekend. They told us that their average student gets about half tuition, which is around $24,000. They rarely give full scholarships. The total cost with tuition, room, board, and fees is $72,000, so even with one of their best scholarships, it would still cost $48,000/year.
My daughter’s vocal coach is really pushing MSM or AMDA or another big NYC school, but my husband and I just can’t justify spending that much for undergrad, especially for a degree in a subject that may or may not give her steady work with decent pay.
What are you all doing for your kids? Thanks in advance.
One of my kids had to say no to his dream school, where he was accepted to the BFA because there was no way that going into the debt that he/we would have to go into would work. If a family has the financial means to pay the high sticker prices, that’s great. But if not, you really have to think long and hard about how much debt you’re willing to hold for your child. And how much they’ll have to hold. If they’re up to their eyeballs in debt and have to hold down a 9-5 in order to pay it back, they won’t have time to audition, so what’s the point of having done the BFA?
@lovetoact If my daughter gets into MSM (highly unlikely, but she’s hoping!), we will have to say no. I didn’t realize they didn’t give full scholarships, so when I heard the sticker price, I almost fell out of my chair.
She has full tuition at Northern Kentucky University because of a program she participated in called Kentucky Governor’s School for the Arts, and she got into their BFA program. Kentucky also pays students for grades they make in high school, so she has an additional chunk coming which will almost cover room and board.
I’m finding it hard to justify sending her anywhere else. She’s come to the conclusion that she can graduate with a BFA basically debt-free and THEN try her luck in NYC.
She’s a smart girl to come to that conclusion! Make the most of the training that you’re able to provide for her and then work her butt off!
While I don’t always agree with the idea of going into massive debt to go to a school like CMU either, I can understand the argument that the networking with alumni from CMU can provide a foot in the door for a young professional. But the BFA at MSM (which I’m sure has great training) hasn’t been around long enough to have built that alumni army so it would be even harder to justify in my mind.
This is a HUGE part of why my son chose Montclair State over Point Park or TCU. Montclair State gives MT kids in-state tuition. So far, through his first year, we haven’t had to take out any loans. I suspect that next year, he will either be an RA, or live off-campus… which will help even more with the budget.
I also have a daughter who will be a freshman next year, instate (Engineering). I have had conversations with my kids and explained how much I have for their college and we have tried to map out a plan to not have any debt… or at least no more than the FAFSA loans.
It is obviously more important for my son as he is not guaranteed reasonable income. My daughter has a bit more leeway, but she is an excellent student so she will have some scholarship help, too.
It is unbelievable how expensive some of these schools are. We all spend a fortune helping our kids follow their dreams and the crazy costs of voice/dance/theatre lessons, summer programs, coaches, auditioning and applying to huge numbers of schools. It is then so difficult to draw a line if they are accepted to the school of their dreams but financially it is impossible.
Of some of the other “top ten program” posts, it would be interesting to see the “top 10 programs for value”, meaning a balance of program reputation/success with more affordability.
The only advice I can give is: it doesn’t hurt to ask for more! If your child is accepted to a school, especially right off the bat and not later from a waitlist, do an in-person visit to the school and talk to an admissions director, one on one as a parent. While some “talent” scholarships may be small, they often have some discretionary funds to increase an initial offer, or to find another scholarship opportunity. For us, a 30min honest discussion with admissions led to sizeable increases in funding that made the difference between being able to attend or not.
We told D her school would have to come in at a certain price, even though we pay more than that for her brother. Reasons being, we don’t want her to have any debt or have to contribute anything for her schooling (where her brother has taken loans, works during school to pay for his personal expenses and over the summer to contribute to tuition - he’ll leave college with a high paying job and predictable income). Our rationale is, regardless of school / network, as a performing artist it is going to be a long grind before she is financially fit. We don’t want her to worry about loans. We want her to be able to do summer stock theater at no pay (if that’s what it is). So we can’t justify the higher expense if she can’t contribute and won’t have a “job” upon graduation.
And really, it’s about the training. So many people (knowledgeable about the biz / in the biz) have told us it doesn’t matter where you go. What matters is how you audition. Casting directors won’t care where or if you went to school. They want to see what you can do relative to what they need. Hard to justify the NYUs of the world (if she gets in) when there are many other schools that give great training for half the price.
This is JUST my opinion as a parent of a MT kid (class of 2021) and an acting/MT teacher and director. I have been through this myself many decades ago, so the info I impart is based on life experience and helping and coaching others through the process.
For kids to work with me (and I do this voluntarily – I have a day job – butt a passion for musical theatre and working with kids), they must agree to these things:
They must try to be as close to debt-free when they graduate as possible. In my opinion, no one should go into $150,000 for a performing arts degree. I had that exact argument with my parents when I was accepted to NYU Tisch in the 80s and I thought the world would end if I didn't go to NY. It didn't. I didn't get my "broadway dreams" but I also didn't try to find a better choice. I was set on big name and expensive schools. My parents were right. I wasn't.
They must find - even with a BFA - to double major or find a minor for a backup plan. This could mean they take AP, IB or dual credit classes in high school in order to knock all their gen ed courses out of the way, making it cheaper and easier to do this. It might mean they take online classes in the summer or in addition to their others. They need to figure it out. I didn't have a backup plan. Didn't believe I needed one. But I did. And it pushed my life back 10 years trying to get on track with another career that I really wanted to do (and theatre has helped quite a lot with that...probably would not have gotten the same opportunities without my theatre skills!).
They need to try to work hard to achieve merit scholarships. There are SO many of them out there these days. Both of the students I am working with now have already gotten max merit from most of the colleges they have applied to. I put together a spreadsheet for them to show them who allows you to STACK money. Some schools don't. We spent the summer making lists and looking for schools where they would qualify for more money than others. So, NYU, AMDA and many others aren't on their lists. But many of the top 30 schools are.
Once the financial aid packages are out, do NOT be afraid to go back and ask for more money. The answer may be no. But it may be yes. Keep every award letter you get and use them to help get you more money at the school you want to attend.
All of the kids I work with get the same speech about how I felt when I was told I couldn’t go to NYU. My parents were not wealthy. I had unrealistic expectations. But I was 18. Who doesn’t at that age? The only regret I have is not finding an affordable RIGHT place to go then. Because they existed. But I was so focused on what i wanted, I couldn’t even think about other good options. And this was pre-Internet, so research actually involved libraries and snail mail and real live phone calls! LOL!!
@onette, Yes to all of this! My daughter has both of her final schools down pretty low. around $7,000/year for one school and $9,000 for the other. She has applied/is applying for all of the outside scholarships we can find and is still waiting to hear from the theatre departments from these two schools about any additional departmental money, so the cost will hopefully be even less that this. Once we get the final scholarship offers, we will be going back to the schools to see if they can sweeten the deal any more.
I totally agree with the idea of a backup plan. She is fighting me on this because someone told her once that “if you have a back up plan, you will use it…” I think that’s bs, but she’s 18 and doesn’t listen to me.
All of your points are spot on! Your students are lucky to have you as a mentor!
Research, Research, Research. The schools you apply to MUST be a financial reality. EVERY year on this forum kids are not able to attend a school they got an acceptance to because of finances. There are full rides out there but they are few and far between and a lot of these schools are expensive!
@kyderbymom -NKU is a good program and graduating debt free can allow her to pursue her professional career much easier than if she is saddled with debt. There are things she can do in the summer or other times to supplement what she gets at NKU and give her that NYC experience. For example, our D did a summer at Broadway Dance Center to get some more intensive dance training. If it is the actual training she is concerned about there are summer internships at well respected theaters and programs such as Williamstown Theater Festival, Hangar Theater, Weathervane and others that require you to pay tuition, but you get to earn equity points as well as get great training and performance credits. And then there are programs like Broadway Theatre Project, The Performing Arts Project, Broadway Dreams and others that can also provide you intensive training with amazing instructors. These are all audition based programs so you are not guaranteed acceptance, but you can get great training, make great contacts and perhaps earn some equity points. Additionally, D spent almost every spring break in NYC. Just because you don’t go to school there doesn’t mean you can’t spend productive time there. Use that money you save by attending your state school to do some of these programs and save money for your post-grad years while you’re trying to get started.
I say over and over again there is no magic about being in New York to make your performing dreams come true. In fact, if you think about it, many of the top programs are nowhere near NYC, yet their graduates do very well. (Think Carnegie Mellon, Michigan, CCCM, Baldwin Wallace, Texas State, Oklahoma City University, Northwestern and others). I would not go into that much debt just to be in NYC for college.
I definitely agree that there needs to be a limit to how much debt will be part of the big picture. For us, we are capping that at $5500/year, for a total of $22,000 over the 4 years. We aren’t taking out parent loans and we aren’t digging into our home equity or our retirement savings to fund any degree (BFA or otherwise) for any of our children (aspiring actors or otherwise).
Where I disagree is on the “back-up plan.” The BFA is enough. They can do so many things in or outside of the industry with that degree (or without it, frankly). If they want to pursue a minor, great. Another major, or a more flexible BA program that combines performance classes with other interests? Also great. But these students are exceptional just for getting into such competitive programs. They have a work ethic that’s second to none. They can collaborate, they can manage time, they can realize the importance of incremental steps toward a bigger product. They can express themselves effectively.
One school boasts that two of its BFA MT graduates are legislative assistants in congressional offices in DC! They didn’t have a back-up plan, they took their skills and experiences and are using them somewhere absolutely worthwhile and relevant. Medical school, law school, master’s degrees in any field are all possibilities for someone with a BFA. Broadway, national tours, and regional theaters hire actors and administrators with and without college degrees every day. Casting offices, agencies and management companies … I could go on all day with the opportunities our students will have after they graduate from a 4-year program. Finding and implementing some of them may require creativity and initiative, but I think these kids have already demonstrated that those qualities are well-honed.
When my son and I look at schools, I hate to say it but we first look if they have a BFA or BA, then we look at tuition. If it’s nowhere near our price range, we exit out and move on to the next. We have a pretty good list of “affordable schools”, but I’ve allowed him to keep AMDA on his list, with the knowledge that it’s his “reach” school and he may never be able to attend if he were to get an acceptance. I’m also going with all of the folks that have suggested saving all of our Financial Award letters and seeing if we can get more from a school, after all they select only a handful of students and many of the schools we are looking at pride themselves on affordability and transparency of tution. We are still in the beginning phases, he is junior, but we are making sure we get organized now, as his senior year will be crazy with his required senior project and sports along with band and choir festival auditions for his senior year of high school, aside from college auditions, the more we learn and prepare now the better we will be come late summer early fall.
Best of luck to your daughter!!
@Sonnie323 When looking at the cost of schools, I hope you know the tuition cost doesn’t always tell the whole story. We became best friends with the Net Price Calculator, which gives you an estimate of the cost of the school after scholarships and/or grants (and sometimes loans) the student would receive based on need and/or merit. There were a bunch of schools that we wouldn’t have been able to consider without merit money, but the guaranteed merit (usually based on grades, test scores or a combination), made these schools very affordable. We would do a search with “University of X Net Price Calculator”, and the page would usually appear, or search in the school’s financial aid section on its website. It’s great that you’re doing your research now!
When you are are looking at school cost, make sure that you look into how much merit aid they typically offer. Some relatively expensive private schools offer really great academic merit aid packages based on grades and test scores, which are irrespective of need (and may have lower thresholds than you may have imagined). Most schools offer an online cost calculator which will show how much merit aid they typically offer for specific GPA’s and test scores.
This is an old thread which ranks MT programs by cost based on merit aid (and in-state discounts), but I think that on a relative basis much of the data still holds:
Since this post was compiled, a few more programs now offer in-state tuition for MT’s and Western Michigan has substantially lowered out-of-state tuition.
My son got several generous packages from private schools. This got him to within about $10K per year of the state school where he ended up. That ended up being the difference between what we could swing and what we couldn’t.
I can not stress how much easier it is if you have the “here’s what we can afford” discussion before acceptances start coming in (earlier if possible). I found out at Chicago Unifieds that a significant source of funding that I was expecting to be there wasn’t. Immediately regrouped and had the conversation with my son.
Also - don’t rule out private schools. Sometimes they can or will provide more assistance than public. And what everyone above says — yes!! The only time I tell a kid to rule a school out is if it is well-known they do not provide much assistance or aid — ever. Merit scholarships can be VERY helpful if you have the grades and test scores. One of my kids just did an interview over Skype for one school for a special leadership scholarship that would stack on top of merit and talent. Plus it gives him money to go abroad. Don’t just look at the price — apply for everything (all the scholarships and grants) and see how the money shakes out. It is also important to know if they allow you to stack awards. A few schools don’t.
The net price calculator was essential to determine if my D would apply to a school. She will be attending Syracuse for a BFA in Acting and the net price calculator underestimated what we would get. Syracuse also requires the CSS profile which doesn’t reflect in the net price calculator. The price tag is $77,964.a year but it is actually costing us less to send her to Cuse than to send our S to his State school. We were overjoyed with the financial aid package. Don’t count out the private expensive schools without going to the calculator first.
@Sonnie323 everyone is giving you great info about school cost here, but look at your specific position to know whether that full sticker price applies to your child. I have one who got a full tuition academic scholarship (at a school that also offers full tuition arts scholarships), one in a school in my state that has very affordable tuition with a scholarship on top of it, and one who goes to a state school in another state but academically qualified for in-state tuition (and some schools like Montclair give all BFAs in-state tuition). It’s important to look at the cost, but make sure you understand all that goes into the final bill you’ll pay.
Also, in-state tuition can mean different things in different states. My son is in New Jersey with instate tuition but it is $3-4K more than the in-state tuition we will be paying for my daughter here in Texas.