Finding the right College Consultant

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I would like to find the right college consultant for my daughter. She is a Junior and has taken the SAT (2320: 800 cr, 800 m, 720 w) has all A's in all honors and AP classes, and decent ECs such as varsity athletics, and volunteer work. She is interested in business and engineering.</p>

<p>Her school counselor is very nice, but he has talked about how the college you go to does not matter and used himself as the example of how you can go to any college and succeed. He prides himself on moving kids away from "brand name" schools. She has worked very hard, and is interested in Ivies and similar top schools, and we could use advice on college visit selection, visit scheduling, questions to ask while there, etc. However, she is not comfortable discussing this with him because, based on his comments, she thinks he will discourage her and won't be helpful. She has met with him a couple times since he received her SAT score, but he has not mentioned it at all. </p>

<p>Given the situation, I would like to find someone who is knowledgeable to advise her and coach her through this process.</p>

<p>We met with one consultant candidate via Skype but he seemed discouraging and talked a lot about how difficult it is to get into top schools and how every kid has a 2300 score and good grades these days. Instead of focusing on the possibilities given where she is today, he kept talking about her lack of a "talent" and made her feel inferior. It just did not seem like a good fit.</p>

<p>Honesty is good, and I know there are no guarantees; however, there is a difference between realism and outright pessimism. Just tearing her down is not helpful. I am hoping to find a consultant who is realistic, but also encouraging and supportive. </p>

<p>We would like to keep the cost to $5,000, if possible, but could go a bit higher if we need to.</p>

<p>Does anyone have a recommendation? We could really use some good, honest advice.</p>

<p>Much2Learn</p>

2

<p>A couple of thoughts:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>The guidance counselor will be writing the school gc recommendation for your daughter, so it is very important for her (and you) to maintain a good relationship with him. So even if you hire someone outside, do not burn that bridge if you can help it. If you do end up needing to tell him that you hired someone, tell him something like that it is because the application process is so overwhelmingly complicated that you feel like you needed someone to help because of that (not because he didn’t seem to be giving you the advice you hoped for).</p></li>
<li><p>You probably won’t get much in recommendations out here without giving a geographic range. I know some parents out here use hired consultants, although honestly there are a lot of “do it yourselfers” out here (that is why they are out here… and for parents who do have the time to dig around and educate themselves, it certainly can be done without hiring someone). You might ask around your community among parents of seniors at your school, see if anyone is using a consultant and how that is going.</p></li>
<li><p>While it is great for your D to apply to a few top schools, you definitely need a range of options for her that includes schools that are matches and safeties as well. The top schools have very low admit rates, and get a ton of applications that look just like your daughter’s. You may not like how the school counselor and the person you Skyped with phrased it, but they are not wrong. Do not spend all of your visit and research time on top schools. It takes a lot more time and energy to find those matches and safeties so your daughter will be certain to have options she is happy to attend once the results come in, so start that process now along with planning a few visits to top schools as well. Sometimes consultants help with this, and sometimes they don’t – we hear stories out here of consultants that ignored parent input on cost, geography, making sure there are good matches/safeties, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>Every year there are kids out here in April that either did not get in anyplace, or only got in at a safety that they had barely researched and have no interest in actually attending. Sometimes the parents can be the biggest problems in this process by going along (or even feeding) the frenzy of “must get into top schools, no others are worth it”. And thinking that because their kid is at the top of their high school, that means they will get into a top school. There are tens of thousands of high schools in the US – all of them have validictorians, a few kids with great test scores, sports captains, etc. Which translates into 10s of thousands of top kids vying for the same small number of spots at top colleges. The most valuable thing you can do for your daughter is to keep her from getting to attached to one dream school, and help her develop a list of a range of schools that will work for her. Whether you do that with a consultant, or by getting a copy of the Fiske Guide to Colleges and starting to research and plan yourself, it is pretty key.</p></li>
<li><p>I would not be seeking a consultant who will only pump your daughter up on her chances at good schools. I personally do not think college admissions is a game won on confidence. No amount of positive thinking will get her admitted if she is not what the colleges are looking for; and they are often looking for hooks, not just great statistics. She should definitely give some top colleges a try, but only with the knowledge that it is a crap shoot for everyone, and a solid backup plan is essential.</p></li>
</ul>

3

<p>the brand name thing is not without merit!
look past the names, is 100% accurate fyi!</p>

4

<p>There is truth to “there are a lot of good schools” start by looking at which ones have good business and engineering. Not all have that. Go from there. Look at the Wash U and johns Hopkins kind of schools or go for it ED at a U Penn</p>

5

<p>let me clarify what I tried to say before, what the counselor said about brand names is true!</p>

6

<p>zobroward, repeating yourself is not actually going to get your point across any better. There is nothing wrong with the OP’s daughter applying to a few of those “brand name” schools. If their family has a lot of money and can afford to pay (if they can pay $5,000 for a college consultant, that may be the case), then they are free to pay for those schools if they want to and their kid gets in. You are right that there are tons of other colleges that aren’t Ivies or tippy-top that are still great schools. I don’t begrudge anyone who gets into and can pay for an Ivy to attend, but just want to give the OP some realistic advice about looking at other options. And making sure her D has someplace to go where she will genuinely be happy. </p>

<p>Some people can’t see past the brand name in clothes or schools. :slight_smile: If that is the case for the OP, you telling them twice to do so won’t make any difference.</p>

7

<p>We would like to keep the cost to $5,000, if possible, but could go a bit higher if we need to.</p>

<p>Do you have a modest income? If not, then expect to pay a LOT more than that for most Top Schools. </p>

<p>Only about 4 universities give “super aid” which might result in such a low contribution </p>

<p>The ivies and many other Top Schools do NOT give merit scholarships since most of their students will have stats like your D’s. Your D would be the “norm” at those schools. </p>

<p>At many of the best schools that “meet need,” they will still expect your family to contribute about 20-33% of your gross income (more if you have a good amount of assets, including home equity). And, most schools will put student loans in their FA packages. These loans will go towards “need”; they aren’t being used to reduce family contribution.</p>

<p>Also, many/most of the schools that give the best aid, will require the student to contribute a “summer earnings” contribution of a few thousand dollars. </p>

<p>If you’re looking for merit scholarships, then you need to go “down the ladder,” where your D will be well-within the top quartile of the school…more like top 2-5% of the school. </p>

<p>Even if you are lowish income and your D would qualify for LOTS of aid at the best schools, getting accepted to those schools can be a lottery since so many super-qualified kids are all applying to those schools. That being the case, your D needs to protect herself by ALSO applying to several schools that will give her HUGE (extra big) merit scholarships for her stats so that her remaining costs will be affordable. </p>

<p>A mere half tuition scholarship won’t do if you can only pay about $5k per year. Even a full-tuition scholarship may still leave you with $15k to pay for room, board, books, fees, travel, misc expenses. Your D can take out a $5500 loan towards those costs, and maybe contribute some summer earnings, and then your family would have to make up the rest.</p>

<p>Your child’s GC is actually right. For most majors/careers, going to a top school is NOT necessary. Not even for med school. Top schools certainly are not worth accumulating a bunch of debt or putting a strain on the family. </p>

<p>Also, hiring a college counselor is very expensive. How can a family that can only spend $5k per year afford one? Frankly, I don’t think these people are necessary. Much of the info can be found here for free.</p>

8

<p>We faced a similar situation with our two daughters. They were both high achievers who were interested in possibly attending high-end schools. The over-worked and understaffed GCs at our school didn’t actively discourage kids from aiming high, but they weren’t much help either. It was simply beyond their normal view of the college world, which pretty much stopped at the top state flagship U. </p>

<p>But we didn’t hire a private counselor either. We solved the problems and learned everything we needed to know ourselves right here on CC. Both girls were eventually accepted at many fine schools: top state universities and highly-selective private ones as well. And both girls chose schools that fit them and their academic abilities and interests.</p>

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<p>You can get tons of good, free advice on all these points and more from the many helpful people here on CC. </p>

<p>But the downside of CC is you will also have to put up with an endless chorus of others who, like your GC, will never stop trying to talk you out of the whole thing - that you don’t need a high-end college, etc., etc. And at one level they’re right. You don’t need it. You don’t need to eat at a nice restaurant to get adequate nutrition either. But if you can afford the prices on the menu, or the restaurant is offering discounts, there is no reason to pass up the gourmet meal if you like the food and it’s available.</p>

<p>The irony of our high school GCs is that a couple years after D2 went off to college, one of the counselors, knowing the admissions success we had achieved, approached us for advice about how to get her own high-achieving daughter into selective colleges. So even though college admissions was her profession, the limited vision and philosophy of the office in which she worked had left her less than fully prepared to help her own daughter achieve her goals.</p>

9

<p>mom2collegekids–I believe the OP was stating that he/she could pay $5000 for the private consultant.</p>

<p>Inparent has some excellent advice in general and is correct about your high school counselor. While you don’t need to take advice about colleges from a high school counselor (some counselors are unrealistic, some have biases about certain types of schools, some are just overworked and overwhelmed), his or her recommendation is very important. So, my suggestion would be to send him an email occasionally about her activities or any special awards, honors or programs that she is involved with. Make sure that your daughter goes in occasionally to chat and update him about herself. And, if he has a specific school that he absolutely feels strongly about, you might consider including it in her mix of schools to show him that you have listened.</p>

<p>In terms of other items, you should have her make a resume or an activities list so that you and she can see whether there are areas she looks a little weak in. If there’s an area she would like to explore in greater depth, consider a summer program, an internship, an online course etc (and by the way, I’m only suggesting that she does things that she wants to do–it is almost always counterproductive to try and force a kid to do an activity she’s not that interested in). </p>

<p>And in connection with visiting colleges, my only suggestion is to start early. Generally, what happens in that you take a big trip during the spring break of junior year and maybe a smaller trip in the summer when campuses are not active. Then, next fall, there are probably still a number of schools you/she would like to see, but there’s no time. See if there are superintendent conference days or professional development days at her high school when she has no school and you can possibly schedule a nearby trip. Look up schools of interest and see if they are putting on a road presentation near your town.
In terms of safety and even match schools, it’s really important to show them that you are truly interested in a school–they will not want to throw away an acceptance on a kid who has shown no interest.</p>

10

<p>intparent, I was not saying it twice, my first post was poorly worded and was to old to be edited. it sounded like I supported the brand name silliness. that said, nothing more is taught at harvard then hundreds of other schools. if the designer name, based on nothing more than people being told from a young age that harvard and columbia are the best schools and some silly list like us news say so for the same reason does not make it true. if somebody wants to stress over getting into a school , that even if they are accepted probably is not the best fit for them is their problem.</p>

11

<p>mom2collegekids–I believe the OP was stating that he/she could pay $5000 for the private consultant.</p>

<p>lol…oh…ok. I can see where I got mixed up. </p>

<p>how every kid has a 2300 score and good grades these days. Instead of focusing on the possibilities given where she is today, he kept talking about her lack of a “talent” and made her feel inferior. It just did not seem like a good fit.</p>

<p>This will be a problem at top schools. Since too many applicants present themselves with tippy-top scores, the one thing that differentiates one from another is some kind of super outside (sometimes national) achievement, ethnic diversity or regional diversity. </p>

<p>OP, your D should not feel “inferior,” but if her high school ECs were typical for a high school student then she won’t “stand out” during an elite admissions process where only a small % of qualified applicants get accepted. </p>

<p>For instance, being an officer in a high school club or playing a varsity sport has become commonplace, while winning a national and highly respected science fair or having literary works published in a respected medium is considered to be more of an achievement. </p>

<p>Your D’s academic record is certainly not “inferior,” but she does need to understand that getting admitted to a tippy top school is a crapshoot no matter what. She (and the family) should understand that her future career success will not be dependent on getting accepted to an tippy top school.</p>

<p>What is her intended major/career goal? What state are you in?</p>

12

<p>If someone were going to spend $5000 on improving a student’s chances of admission, I usually advise spending it on test prep. In your case, your daughter has already nailed that piece of the equation.
I would spend 100 dollars buying a good book about the college admissions process, like “Admission Matters” by Sally Springer and Jon Reider, and then a stack of books with descriptions of various schools, like The Insider’s Guide and The Fiske Guide.
I would use the rest of the money to visit schools that she is seriously considering, and spend enough time on each campus to go beyond the initial tour. Sitting in on classes, having lunch with current students she knows, and meeting with professors will give her the information she needs to make better choices on her college list and write a more thoughtful application for her favorite schools.</p>

13

<p>Wow. Thank you all for the opinions and information. There are so many helpful and nice people here. I have read all of it and am trying to soak it all in.</p>

<p>To answer your questions, she likes math and science, and is interested in economics/business. Therefore, we investigating schools that have both engineering and business so she can explore both. We live in the Midwest. Penn, Michigan, Illinois, Johns Hopkins, and MIT are a few of the initial candidates. We are planning to begin visits soon. </p>

<p>Perhaps we don’t need a consultant, but the process is complex and has changed a lot since I went to school. The biggest benefit of hiring one would be to remove some of the self-inflicted pressure I feel to provide her with good guidance, while knowing that I am not an expert at all. I am sure many of you have felt way about helping your child. Thanks again.</p>

<p>Much2learn</p>

14

<p>Just FYI, as a Michigan grad I can tell you that engineering is all consuming at Michigan. You can’t really double major (business and engineering are in different “schools” within Michigan anyway). So you kind of have to know which one you are going to do when you enter. Although you don’t start business school your freshman year (you can be admitted prior to arrival, spend freshman year in another program like LS&A, or apply once you are at Michigan in someplace like LS&A). But you can’t really double up on those.</p>

<p>One suggestion I would have is what my D2 did last summer. She went to an engineering summer camp to scope out whether she wanted to be an engineer or not. She wasn’t sure, but wanted to know before she got to college. It is hard enough to finish an engineering degree in four years anyway, so she wanted some idea before she started it. In her case she learned from her summer experience that she did NOT want to be an engineer. Which was worth something in itself. So that is something you might consider for your D next summer to figure out whether it is for her or not. Obviously math and science have many other possible majors besides engineering, though. My D has pretty much settled on Physics as her probable major after ruling out engineering.</p>

<p>Even if you hire a consultant, I would advise you to get a copy of the Fiske Guide to Colleges and spend some time going through it. It gives really good descriptions, and can help identify or rule out colleges. Consultants come with their biases, too, and this is a fairly small investment of time & money to make sure the schools they recommend match what your D would want.</p>

15

<p>*To answer your questions, she likes math and science, and is interested in economics/business. Therefore, we investigating schools that have both engineering and business so she can explore both. We live in the Midwest. Penn, Michigan, Illinois, Johns Hopkins, and MIT are a few of the initial candidates. We are planning to begin visits soon. *</p>

<p>I agree with the above that pursuing a double major in Engineering and in Business isn’t likely since Engineering often requires add’l credits and there is a strict sequence that must be followed each semester.</p>

<p>Are you expecting to pay full-freight for college? For publics like UMich and UIUC, you may be expected to pay all or nearly all costs as an OOS student. You also might want to check to see if those schools charge more for eng’g majors. I believe that they do, and UMich also charges a higher rate for upper division students. </p>

<p>If money is no object, then your D’s list may be fine. If money is a concern, then have her apply to a couple of financial safeties as well.</p>

16

<p>You might consider having your daughter apply to the Jerome Fisher summer program in management and technology at UPenn. It’s a three-week course which introduces students to core engineering and business principles. And while it would not guarantee acceptance into Penn or anything like that, it would give your daughter access to Penn professors who might consider writing a recommendation for her. It’s not inexpensive and it’s a competitive process to get accepted, but students who have taken the program speak very highly of it. Here’s the link
[THE</a> JEROME FISHER PROGRAM IN MANAGEMENT & TECHNOLOGY | SUMMER PROGRAM](<a href=“Home - Jerome Fisher Program in Management & Technology”>Home - Jerome Fisher Program in Management & Technology) </p>

<p>Another school to consider with an integrated engineering and business program is Lehigh. It’s an excellent honors program that attracts some of Lehigh’s strongest students.</p>