First Born Going to College and Request Assistance About WFU Due to Contradictions

Colleges and Universities A-Z Wake Forest University
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<p>I have followed this board for a while but this is my first posting. We are not from the South but my DD found WFU last year and she loves it. It has been among her favorite schools for over a year. I have been trying to read up about the school. We don't have many WFU alumni around us but found a current student and had breakfast with her. That meeting and reading this forum is the reason for this posting. My DD wanted to apply ED to WFU but I have been unsettled with some of the postings on this forum and would not allow her to do it. Also, she emailed a couple of professors and never heard back. Frankly, I am wondering if some of the friendliness portrayed by the school is an Admissions Office facade.</p>

<p>The current student is a pre med. She quit her sorority because she said academics interfered with it and she was getting fined for missing meetings. Also, the discussion of "work forest" and deflation has me concerned. I have never seen this type of discussion at a high level college. Contrary to what some on this board have posted, the alleged grade deflation of WFU, if true, is not well known and professional schools don't take into account WFU students' lower GPAs. Finally, the student we met discussed a science lab where only a certain number of As and Bs were going to be given and the professor was looking for missing commas and anything else to take points off the kids labs. My daughter wants to study science but possibly major in the Humanities.</p>

<p>Questions: 1. Can anyone please explain in more than a rant the work forest issue? I have even seen the Admissions Office place this on their web site which does not make much sense to me. Do we actually believe students work more than they would at any comparable institution?</p>

<pre><code> 2. Can anyone speak to the quality of the Chemistry Dept at WFU and the pre med experience?

           3. Is there anyone who can explain all the rampant grade deflation rumors?  My DD is a hard worker but I don't want her attending a school where the grading is arbitrary and capricious.

        4.   Is it possible to be a serious student and also participate in Greek life at WFU or are they exclusive?

</code></pre>

<p>Many thanks. This entire process has been hard. She wants to attend school outside of our region which I support but while there is much good about WFU there are some unsettling items that have been posted and they do not seem to be outliers.</p>

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<p>Good questions, I’d like to hear what people have to say about this. </p>

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<p><<questions: 1.="" can="" anyone="" please="" explain="" in="" more="" than="" a="" rant="" the="" work="" forest="" issue?="" i="" have="" even="" seen="" admissions="" office="" place="" this="" on="" their="" web="" site="" which="" does="" not="" make="" much="" sense="" to="" me.="" do="" we="" actually="" believe="" students="" they="" would="" at="" any="" comparable="" institution?="">></questions:></p>

<p>For me at least, the extra study is compensatory. I’m bright but no genius. My competitive advantage is hard work, conservation of resources and fewer hangovers—in fact, no hangovers. </p>

<p><<2. Can anyone speak to the quality of the Chemistry Dept at WFU and the pre-med experience?>></p>

<p>The Chemistry Department like all the sciences is excellent but intense only because there are always a few students who can consistently deliver whatever quality is demanded of them.</p>

<p><<3. Is there anyone who can explain all the rampant grade deflation rumors? My DD is a hard worker but I don’t want her attending a school where the grading is arbitrary and capricious.>> </p>

<p>(see above) If you want to call it “grade deflation” you can, but it’s more like “grade realism.” </p>

<p><<4. Is it possible to be a serious student and also participate in Greek life at WFU or are they exclusive?>></p>

<p>Greek life and academic seriousness are not mutually exclusive, and I say this as an independent. A couple of fraternities and sororities have had their difficulties, but it’s not like Kappa Sigma is a Crips gang. </p>

<p><<many thanks.="" this="" entire="" process="" has="" been="" hard.="" she="" wants="" to="" attend="" school="" outside="" of="" our="" region="" which="" i="" support="" but="" while="" there="" is="" much="" good="" about="" wfu="" are="" some="" unsettling="" items="" that="" have="" posted="" and="" they="" do="" not="" seem="" be="" outliers.="">></many></p>

<p>Putting myself in your daughter’s shoes all I can say is, “Love ya dad. But do relax.” </p>

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<p>I have never looked at Wake Forest as a particular tough work camp, even for premeds, where it 's a tough go a lot of the times, due to the importance of grades in general for med school acceptance and for grades in the sciences, in particular. You get a bunch of intense, directed kids in competition for top grades, and yes, it gets tense. But I’ve considered this more a feature at schools like JHU, Cornell, the tech schools, not so much Wake Forest. </p>

<p>As for Greek life, it would depend upon the house. Also in the ability of the student to multi task.</p>

<p>IMO, for those kids who are not so intensely academic, not so brilliant that they don’t have to work for their grades/scores, if they want to get into med school, they should go to a school that is a safety to them A nice Catholic school with a premed program where the students are nurtured and brought along to make it into med school rather than through a gauntlet that will eliminate a number of them. Med schools, for the most part, focus on the grades and MCAT scores. You can work on those scores with directed test prep as well as having a curriculum that is premed based rather than PHD research based. You want the best chance for the best grades and support. Those who are truly up there in the stats and prep, they can go for the challenge of the top premed schools.</p>

<p>But, frankly, I would not have put Wake in there with the most stringent schools. </p>

<p>Your DD did not apply ED, so she’ll have a chance to compare these things when accepted to a number of schools. </p>

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<p>@firstborndad
Legitimate questions. I am a graduate of WFU of the last ten years, I did not study natural sciences, but I did study hard and did well academically and was rewarded post-graduate in my pursuits certainly in part because of it. @freshcoffee did a solid job of responding, but I will add my two cents.

  1. A student who is bright will work hard at WFU. comparing one work load to another school’s is a) impossible and b) usually done as a means of ego-serving in my opinion, but I personally put lots of hours into my study, but I cannot imagine having had more professors who were as interested and hands-on as I did anywhere else (with less than three exceptions after about 40 classes!). Every single paper I ever wrote had hand-written notes on them and most also had a typed up or summary of professor’s comments. I also regularly went into office hours to gain extra support when needed. Wake=Work if you want to excel and you are passionate about study. Having since also studied in the NE, I would also add that it can be tough to write papers or be in labs when it’s nice so much of the year, ha.
    Also, while pre-med students and business students rightfully talk about their workload a lot, every college student should be working hard and honestly at WFU, my experience was that it was fine arts students who put in among the most hours of anyone on campus.
  2. I was not a science student so no personal comment. But very close friend was, he excelled as a bio-chem double major, was very involved in variety of extracurricular activities and got into one of the top grad programs (medicine) of his field. I think it’s fair that professors respond well to effort but raw talent is also important. I wouldn’t have had it for Chemistry and thus would have not done terrifically well, haha.
  3. Grades are fine. There is the idea that some schools have rampant grade inflation and I would not say WFU has that reputation (for which I think speaks to integrity of professors, bright students don’t necessarily deserve good grades), but nor would I say it’s painfully hard for WFU students to do well. I have a host of friends who did indeed do well, in every field.
  4. Yes, you can be Greek and do awesome in school. A quick perusal of recent Rhodes, Fulbright etc. students can show you the success of both Greek and non-Greek students. I was not in Greek life at WFU, never was inclined to, don’t regret not doing it and personally found it not appealing socially or professional, BUT, plenty of students in the Greek organizations regularly did as well or better than I in school. No organization is static in its reputation or academic success and you will likely enjoy the company of some Greek students and enjoy the company of some non-Greeks and vice-versa. Some of my closest friends loved their experiences in Greek life, some hated it. Most important in that choice is just being confident in who you are and people will generally respect that.
    Finally, I loved my experience because I gained incredible mentors, had incredible opportunities, was personally challenged (in fun and hard ways) academically and socially, and got to see a lot of the world along the way. GoDeacs!</p>
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<p>Question 1 and 3
My son is a freshman. He came out of an IB program at a high performing, suburban high school that sends students to top universities around the country. He is no stranger to balancing extensive ECs with a rigorous curriculum. He says that there is a lot of work demanded of students at Wake Forest, specifically, a large amount of reading each night. He has mentioned that the professors are “harsh” graders and in his Freshman Orientation class, his
B is one of the higher grades. However, I don’t feel this grading is arbitrary or capricious. I feel it is likely an honest evaluation of where he is as a college level writer. </p>

<p>Would you call that grade deflation or does Wake Forest simply have high expectations for its students? This is college after all. Unfortunately we are living in a world where grades are valued over an education and where students feel that they are entitled to a high grade simply because they show up to class and turned in their homework. Grade inflation runs rampant and low expectations abound at too many universities. </p>

<p>See:
<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2013/12/26/why-college-grade-inflation-is-a-real-problem-and-how-to-fix-it”>http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2013/12/26/why-college-grade-inflation-is-a-real-problem-and-how-to-fix-it&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“College, too easy for its own good”>http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/02/opinion/la-oe-arum-college-20110602&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“What the Ivies can learn from Wellesley”>http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2014/08/economics-university-grading&lt;/a&gt; (comments are interesting)</p>

<p>Do I think that students at Wake work harder than at comparable universities. I don’t know. My son’s friend goes to Emory and she is working pretty hard to make good grades. Conversely, word on the street is that you have to work hard to not get an A at Duke. What’s important to me is that, regardless of the grading scale, my son is on fire for what he is learning. Every time we talk, he is excited to discuss what he is learning in class. Heck, he is excited to talk about what his friends are learning/doing in class. Even this first semester, Wake has opened his eyes to fields of study he had never considered: philosophy, classics, and now even some rumblings about business. That is the value of a true liberal arts education.</p>

<p>Question 4
Can a serious student participate in Greek life? I’m not sure since my son is only a freshman, but he is already super involved on campus and so far, he is doing well academically. He has been in a play, he built sets for another, he sings in a choir, he started a new acapella group, he ran the sound board for the fall dance show, he wrote/directed/ put-on a one act play, and he participated in the two big, all-campus charity events. He is taking 16 credit hours and he says (hope springs eternal) that he is on track to get a 3.5 GPA. What my son does not do is sit around and watch TV and play video games and it sounds like he is not out drinking 5 nights a week. He is, however, already burning the candle at both ends and I don’t know if he can sustain his current level of activity as an upperclassman and maintain the same sort of GPA. He will have to figure it out. </p>

<p>Re the friendliness comment…
When we visited campus, we got a lot of personal attention from faculty. The Theater Department went out of their way to show us around and talk about the program and the head of the History Department spent 1.5 hours speaking with us. Now a student, my son has continued to get quite a lot of personal attention from his professors. One asked him to interview for a paid research position next semester (job went to a senior, but my son was flattered to have been asked) and another professor encouraged him to apply for a special scholarship/internship program. I just don’t think you get that level of attention as a freshman from the professors at larger schools.</p>

<p>To sum it up, our experience so far is that Wake is a university that values academic rigor. It is likely a best fit for students who work hard, who enjoy learning and who have an innate intellectual curiosity. Only you know if this is a good fit for your daughter. </p>

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<p>Just a small note, I would not have hs students emailing professors. Profs are very busy and there is nothing a hs student needs to ask them, imo it is just inconsiderate. If she really has valid questions then ask the admissions office. You don’t know their research like a grad student would and ask to be part of their research group, for instance.</p>

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<p>Cbrand,</p>

<p>What is Freshman orientation class? Is that a surviving college type of class? Why would the grades be so low?</p>

<p>I think the issue raised by OP that is still somewhat of a concern is that however WFU is grading, is the school placing its students at a disadvantage? Law schools, medical schools and employers are not going to give a bump to WFU students because of a reputation for toughness. </p>

<p>Can I ask a follow up? How many kids are in your son’s classes and does he have any experience with the science or math department?</p>

<p>Many thanks for an informative posting.</p>

<p>I have to admit to some confusion. Your description of the professors’ interaction with your son sounds amazing and something I would value for my child. It just seems at odds with the harsh grading.</p>

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<p>Freshman Orientation is not the correct term for the class, sorry. It is actually First Year Seminar <a href=“First Year Seminars (FYS 100) - Undergraduate College”>http://college.wfu.edu/academics/first-year-seminars/&lt;/a&gt; Here is a list of the fall offerings: <a href=“http://college.wfu.edu/files/2014/09/Fall-2014-First-Year-Seminar.pdf”>http://college.wfu.edu/files/2014/09/Fall-2014-First-Year-Seminar.pdf&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>Class size? I don’t know exact numbers but I think his theater and dance classes are running around 30 people while his other classes are under 20.</p>

<p>Why is his First Year Seminar hard? It is a class focusing on the lead up to the Civil War, taught by a nationally recognized expert in the field, who has won numerous writing awards. Last night, my son was finishing a nine page paper on Lincoln’s second inaugural address. I’m telling you… they don’t mess around at Wake. </p>

<p>Sorry… no math or science so far. My son is a total humanities guy. At some point, though, he will have to take 2 Math and Natural Science divisionals. </p>

<p>Again, I don’t think the grading at Wake is harsh. I think it is a fair evaluation of the students’ mastery of TRUE college level work. At Wake, they don’t give you gold stars for just showing up.</p>