First thoughts: Asian with an MBA?

Graduate School Business School - MBA
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<p>Hi, this may sound a bit self-concious, but I was wondering what are the chances of someone of asian descent succeeding in the business world with an MBA?</p>

<p>I know good business men have to have great charisma and be quick on their feet. It's not that I'm lacking those two things but I was just wondering, would people pay attention to a 5'6 (below average height) who is not rugged or handsome, just a hard worker? How would you rate [my] chances at succeeding, meaning making a decent salary preferably higher than that of medical doctors. Plus, with an MBA, what exactly do people do in the field of business, I always imagine them being CEOs, but I do realize that there are financial accountants and other jobs. So what would the best jobs in the business field be?</p>

2

<p>if you can produce results people will respect you</p>

<p>if you just want a safe job through hard work that isn't performance based, go with a MD</p>

<p>god knows theres an incredible amount of people going for that already, whats one more?</p>

3

<p>Gordon Gecko says; "I want ppl that are poor, smart and hungry". If that description fits in on you, then you could most probably succeed in the business world with or without an MBA.</p>

4

<p>
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I know good business men have to have great charisma and be quick on their feet.

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<p>Well, I don't know about that, particularly the part about charisma. The truth is, some of the most successful businessmen in the world are quite dull and boring speakers. To give you an example, Lou Gerstner, the legendary former CEO of IBM, is an conspicuously un-charismatic speaker. Even Bill Gates is not particularly charismatic - certainly nothing like some of his competitors such as Steve Jobs or Larry Ellison. Plenty of today's business leaders are not particularly charismatic. Plenty of them also don't think quickly on their feet (which is perhaps why many companies such as Ford and GM are in financial distress). </p>

<p>
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It's not that I'm lacking those two things but I was just wondering, would people pay attention to a 5'6 (below average height) who is not rugged or handsome, just a hard worker?

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</p>

<p>I would point out that Lou Gerstner is something like 5'2, and not particularly handsome. Jack Welch is also not exactly Shaquille O'Neal or Brad Pitt, although granted, he is quite charismatic and can obviously think on his feet. Bill Gates will never win any awards for handsomeness. </p>

<p>Don't get me wrong. Height, handsomeness, and charisma all help, particularly in certain lines of business, especially sales, marketing, public relations, investor relations, and so forth. If you have a job that requires lots of interactions with customers, then it helps a lot to be tall and handsome. If your job is to inspire workers or investors, then it helps to be charismatic. </p>

<p>But the truth is, you don't really 'need' any of those things. There are plenty of short, ugly, and boring businessmen. Just go to any business headquarters, and sure, you will see people that looked like they stepped out of an Abercrombie & Fitch ad. That's certainly one stereotype of a successful businessman. But then you will se a lot of fat, balding, and plain-looking too. That's another one of the business stereotypes. </p>

<p>You also ask what do Asians who get an MBA do. The obvious answer these days is to go to Asia. Specifically, with much of the world's recent economic growth emanating from Asia (especially China and India) and much of the world's economy re-orienting itself to accomodate new-found Asian economic power, there is a great need for businessmen who are familiar with Asian languages and culture. For example, I know a number of Asians who have taken jobs to become the liaisons between multinational companies and their operations in Asia. One guy, after getting a top MBA, has been rehired by his former employer (a US-based company) to set up a new plant in India. He is familiar with both cultures, so he is highly qualified for the job.</p>

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<p>haha speaking of a & f, if you ever see a picture of thier CEO, trust me, he's no George Clooney. Honestly though, a lot of it will matter, but I'm pretty sure that as long as you dress neat and sharp you'll be fine.</p>

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<p>Sakky makes some excellent points as always.</p>

<p>To add to that, I'd simply say this:</p>

<p>1) With the continued "flattening" of the world economy (as per Thomas L. Friedman's 'World is Flat' - i.e. that the world is shrinking and thus becoming more interconnected) employers are seeking the best and the brightest people. Period. What may have been considered a "disadvantage" a decade or two ago can very well be positioned as a differentiating asset - be it culture, race, gender or otherwise.</p>

<p>2) You've got to identify those companies that understand this and are willing to capitalize on these opportunities - the forward-thinking, nimble and smart firms - i.e. the ones anyone wants to work for. Take a look at Fortune's list of "Best Companies to Work For" - they all have one important common trait: the innate understanding that human resources (people) are the single most important resource that any firm can acquire, develop, manage and hold onto.</p>

<p>That doesn't take away from the fact that physical appearances do matter to some extent - but they don't trump skills and ability - not at the entry level anyway. Sure, if you're 6'3" and look like Brad Pitt - its certainly not going to hurt you, but that's not what's going to make or break that person's chances of making it in the corporate world.</p>

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<p>In my personal opinion there IS discrimination in the upper strata of the business world.</p>

<p>The large majority of people of asian decent I've personally worked with were hired to do quantitative support type jobs, not line jobs.</p>

<p>However, I've known several who advanced into general trading from there, and one who became a highly successful generalist investment banker.</p>

<p>It's hard to say how much had to do with the personal attributes of the particular individuals I encountered, vs. how much was actual discrimination.</p>

<p>I do clearly recall though when I was in my MBA program, I got interviews at two investment banks and two of my Indian friends, who had higher grades than I, didn't. There are other explanations, but it certainly planted a seed in my mind. Theirs too, I'm sure.</p>

<p>In general, I think trading is the most democratic environment.</p>

<p>I'm not suggesting that a particular individual can't succeed. Just they might have one more thing to overcome, unfortunately.</p>

<p>Hopefully I am wrong.</p>

8

<p>Generally, the environment has improved since a lot of Asians entering the business world are second or third generation and who are native English speakers. They can integrate much more easily than their "FOB" predecessors who faced cultural and language barriers. But of course, the "glass ceiling" still may be present.</p>

<p>I think undergraduate Wharton is at least 30% Asian if not more. Their quantitative skills are generally better and their numbers in analyst positions in IB are well represented.</p>

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<p>Monydad, </p>

<p>I'm very glad you posted that. I was not aware that there is infact a significant bias against azns and indns in the banking sector. I thought this happened mostly in the IT industry at the management level.</p>

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<p>"I was not aware that there is infact a significant bias against azns and indns in the banking sector."</p>

<p>I believe this is changing; I also believe monydad stopped working in I-banking a few years ago. As demographics change, the demand for a diverse team increases -- that's if you want to compete globally, of course.</p>

<p>I know a quite a few Indians whom have successfully entered Ibanks. Perhaps they won't make partner or become senior executives, but they got their foot in the door. I think the "come one, come all" concept applies here. As time goes by and one or two "diverse" member reach the upper levels, the barrier shifts from cultural biases to performance. </p>

<p>Perhaps I am idealistic, but I think this kind of progress is actually happening.</p>

<p>Nevertheless, the diverse people I know in Ibanking are very attractive and have charisma. They seem exotic, rather than "different". Most are insanely smart (not necessarily quantitatively) and very hard working. I know a couple who are first generation immigrants; apparently they came across as success-hungry during their interviews and that made them appealing.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I know good business men have to have great charisma and be quick on their feet.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Good car salesmen, maybe... good businessmen, on the other hand, are usually full of integrity and strategic thoughts... they are very personable (may be charisma, but I liken it to sincerity and true desire to assist others before themselves), and able to understand how to get the right people doing the right things. They don't necessarily have to be good at making speeches, or able to answer questions within 5 seconds... in fact, good businessmen usually take their time to answer questions and allow themselves a night or two to sleep on big decisions. I guess the real key to business is to be willing to work really hard and have focus/vision, and by all means have integrity (don't be a good Enron businessman, cuz we all know just how far that'll get ya).</p>

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<p>Thanks a lot for all the inputs guys, I really appreciate it.</p>

<p>Seriously though, after watching The Apprentice, I get the feeling that the truly smart people work in business and take risks while the safe, above average folks vie for something in the medical field. I mean, I've always had a nack for business but my parents disapprove and want me to be some kind of medical doctor.</p>

<p>I guess it's just a culture thing, as long as doctors have a more prestigious aura to them, other people will be more prone to admire them than businessmen. Also, not everyone with an MBA will strike it rich, actually, most won't. The risks that go into it are just too high, albeit the salary cap to their jobs versus medical doctors are out of this world.</p>

<p>I'm still in high school so I still have some time to investigate more on what I'd like to do. Some business jobs are kind of confusing to me. I guess most business "people" work as accountants and stuff like that. Behind the scene work, managing the financial side of a company. But what about the ones that travel the world for the company? Those sounds really cool and interesting. How would I be able to get that kind of jobs?</p>

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<p>You are not born with leadership, but rather it is learned. It may take some extra work but you say that you are a hardworker.</p>

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<p>Leadership is learned?</p>

<p>To a large extent I would disagree with that statement. From all of the management books I have read, and my personal experience, not just anyone can be a strong and effective leader. It takes a certain personality to handle situations correctly and succeed, it's not something that can just be "picked up" through practice.</p>

<p>To the OP: I would say the skin color isn't the major factor, it's the personality. It just so happens that <em>most</em> smart asians that I know would not be good businessmen, they probably wouldn't like it either. But that isn't to say that you can't be great if it is truly your passion and you feel you have the personality and intelligence to make it. Of course in certain areas you may find it harder, just as women still struggle to an extent in top management positions.</p>

<p>If you are looking for a "safe" career, then business is not it. You aren't guaranteed to make a lot of money, and people are going to be very harsh if you aren't good enough. That's likely why many people go into medicine or science - as long as you have a certain level of intelligence and a strong work ethic, you're basically set to make a good salary.</p>

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<p>noob cannon (jk :p) . . .actually look at the world: indian stock market went up 56%, question is why wouldn't they want an asian?</p>

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<p>I interned at a bugle bracket Ibank and noticed that there wasn't a single asian in the whole office except a half indian half white guy. There was a black guy in there too, but pretty much everyone was the typical 6 foot athletic good looking white guy. The only reason I got to intern here as an Asian is because I knew some of the white employees. Wow I feel like I'm that character in "The Invisible Man."</p>

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<p>I went to a goldman sachs reception. the amount of asians there blew my mind. </p>

<p>extremely overrepresented.</p>

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<p>okay...to tell you the truth...this thread is getting really annoying</p>

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<p>"Leadership is learned?</p>

<p>To a large extent I would disagree with that statement. From all of the management books I have read, and my personal experience, not just anyone can be a strong and effective leader. It takes a certain personality to handle situations correctly and succeed, it's not something that can just be "picked up" through practice."</p>

<p>I disagree with your statement slightly. While leadership skills cannot "just be 'picked up'", it is certainly something that can be developed and honed in overtime. In that sense, if can you to improve those skills given "enough" time.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I interned at a bugle bracket Ibank and noticed that there wasn't a single asian in the whole office except a half indian half white guy. There was a black guy in there too, but pretty much everyone was the typical 6 foot athletic good looking white guy. The only reason I got to intern here as an Asian is because I knew some of the white employees. Wow I feel like I'm that character in "The Invisible Man."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Were you actually interning in IBD or was this your Smith Barney internship because there is a major difference. I see tons of asians in banking, especially the S&T side.</p>