<p>Thanks for the responses to my question about how my son seems to respond to colleges we visit. I think cangel is correct in saying he has already made up his mind. I just want to make sure its the right one, because, as somebody here said, four years is a long time to spend somewhere.</p>
<p>It is amazing how I found myself nodding in agreement to what was being written. Very insightful! Thank you!!</p>
<p>No offense to anyone but I am <em>so</em> grateful that I had a <em>communicative</em> daughter. Oh, she might sometimes squawk about it but even that was useful communication.</p>
<p>gnusasaurus, my son enjoyed visiting all the schools... he visited 5 out of the 8 where he ended up applying. The one he visited on his own is where he will be next year. It was a clear favorite from the start. But I don't think I was aware of that. He was! So just because your kids are quiet about their feelings means little. When the acceptance at his fav came through in an email one morning, the music went on full blast. </p>
<p>That said, he talks now very fondly about several others where he was accepted and where he would have gone with no hesitation if his fav hadn't come through.</p>
<p>processedout,</p>
<p>I too have been through the process twice in the past several years. Your approach was logical and to the point but there are monkey wrenches thrown into the mix at every turn that make each college search so different.</p>
<p>Consistently it seems the daughters are more cooperative and communicative than the sons. True here. She was a delight, he was a nightmare...slept in the car the entire time, perused a campus in 5 minutes and said yes or no, let's go. Finally at crunch time (April) he woke up, took his 2 overnights seriously and had no trouble picking a winner. I'd say this...if you have this kind of kid don't visit too early, if he or she is basically a procrastinator they won't get much out of the visits if they aren't into it yet. </p>
<p>A slight mismatch in grades vs standardized testing also makes compiling a list of schools not so easy. We had that, the opposite way, with each kid. I found coming up with the list to be the hardest part of the whole process.</p>
<p>(True if you do your work at Harvard with your 1100 you can graduate, but I doubt you'll major in physics, and I'll bet you'll be near the bottom of your class.)</p>
<p>Gnusasaurus, knew you'd get one...and no offense taken, but I visited my S at CMU many times and one thing I can say is it never smelled. Funny how something so silly can influence how you feel about a place. We visited Wesleyan on a hot August day in the middle of a drought in the northeast. He didn't like or apply there, reason: the grass was brown. Of course this wasn't the whole picture but it had an effect I'm sure.</p>
<p>Everyone's different. D refused to visit anything anywhere. Too busy with two sports and six AP classes, plus all the other fun stuff that comes with senior year of high school. The summer before she was equally busy, and the junuor year before that etc. </p>
<p>She made application choices based on intended major, coaching staff, size of city (had to be big - she applied to schools in Boston, NYC, Miami, DC, etc.), and, rankings. Her logic was that if the school had what she wanted in terms of academics and sports, she didn't care one bit what any part of it looked or felt like, and, she could always get a visual concept on the web if she really wanted one. </p>
<p>When the acceptances were in, I absolutely refused to permit mailing a deposit until she visited her intended selection. She didn't really see the need but came along. So we spent an entire three hours on campus - long enough to have lunch with the coaching staff, see the dorms and dining halls. The look and feel of the campus exceeded her expectations, and mine, and so now she's a couldn't-be-happier rising senior. </p>
<p>Oh, and her most thrilling part of the visit was the campus shuttle service because it has a silly name - she got so excited about it, go figure.</p>
<p>I'm wondering what the point of visiting is at all if the kid's attitude is that he/she doesn't want to be there/doesn't care - or if the kid is going to make a decision based on superficial impressions (grass is brown... doesn't like what the tour guide is wearing, etc.). It seems to me that the college visit has become more of a rite of passage for the parents than for the kids -- at least for some kids.</p>
<p>CalMom, I agree. I wouldn't spend the time & money to visit with a student who was not engaged with the process.</p>
<p>Calmom -- I'm with you. Visiting is over-rated as a search technique. It may matter for admissions chances if the adcom sees it as a sign of interest or commitment. But some kids can't be dragged to visit colleges, and it may not matter in any case. And unless you have an unlimited budget you can't check out a whole lotta schools. (My son visited none til after he was admitted. He did fine. My daughter visited only two to which she was admitted. She did fine.)</p>
<p>Ignoring the rankings as a selection criterion is a terrific idea. But it's hard not to be aware of them if you're really doing your preparatory homework.</p>
<p>Agreed...and after a few information sessions one starts to sound like the next. </p>
<p>One thing about visiting though...I'd highly recommend the overnight stay at the finalist schools. That was the way to seal the deal, at least for my kids.</p>
<p>I'll file a demurral. Visiting completely re-ordered my D's thoughts about where to apply. The previous #1 was completely knocked off the list and LAC's in general and womens colleges in particular shot way up...no way she would have known without visiting <em>before</em> applying. On the scale of things, one of the best investments I've ever made.</p>
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Agreed...and after a few information sessions one starts to sound like the next.
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<p>Ditto. They do all sound alike. In fact, most of the information presented was available from the websites or other printed sources. DS started to refuse to attend the informational sessions and just wanted to look around campuses. It was helpful to request a personal visit/tour at some locations. Surprisingly, a big state school, Penn State, had the nicest people who went out of their way to accomodate us on a personal tour.</p>
<p>But did your daughter WANT to visit? I'm asking because my comment above was about disengaged students. The kids that either have the attitude that they don't want to be there, or come along grudgingly but only give the campus a cursory or superficial look. </p>
<p>I agree that for an engaged kid, visits can be worthwhile. I doubt my daughter would be so strongly considering U. of Chicago if she hadn't visited earlier this year - - though I've figured out that its mostly a matter of architecture. But my d does not seem particularly interested in visiting elsewhere, especially if there is any suggestion that a parent may come along. I think the idea that she goes alone is going to be non-negotiable (helped along somewhat that she won a round-trip airline ticket last week that must be used before the end of October, to fly either to Boston or NY.) So at least in her universe, visits are something that can only be done in the absence of parents. </p>
<p>On the other hand, its not like there is only one perfect school out there which must be found -- the kids who do their visiting via the internet also seem to make good choices, and in many ways they may be better informed about the school than the kids filing behind the campus tour guide. It's true that they may miss seeing some campus that they would really like -- but on the other hand they are going to tend to make their selections by equally valid criteria.</p>
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he was a nightmare...slept in the car the entire time, perused a campus in 5 minutes and said yes or no, let's go.
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<p>That sounds like a good time to print out the application form for the crappy state school where half his high school class is going and put it on his desk.</p>
<p>When he asks, say, "well, your mom and I have been talking it over and we've decided that since you clearly don't give a darn, we like the price tag of this school the best....."</p>
<p>Web sites, including school sites are great for formulating ideas. Check out Campustours.Com</p>
<p>I agree to some extent with Calmom. DH and I went into the visiting process last summer with full recognition that part of what we were doing was making ourselves feel comfortable with the idea of sending our daughter very,very far away from home - I just don't think we would have been as comfortable without actually seeing "the place". DD felt like that, too, at the BEGINNING of the visits, by the time she actually applied, she was saying she wouldn't take her kids to see any colleges - they would just have to apply first!</p>
<p>I think most kids applying to competitive schools need to at least see a small school and a large school - maybe a school that is alien to their environment - urban if they are in a suburb, or rural, or vice versa. Beyond that, it really depends on the child whether visits before or after, or not at all are helpful. I, also don't think it is all that important for the schools visited to be exactly the ones he is applying to, it is more about type of school.</p>
<p>Due to our schedule we took a sampling approach to visiting colleges. Beginning freshman year we visited a couple of large privates and a couple of smaller LAC's and live near a large public and small public. We tried to find campuses that were somehow representative of some of the extremes we read about. S also did overnights at his top two once admitted to both, which really helped him make his decision.</p>
<p>Visiting has interesting effects. S was completely turned off by Harvard, unexpectedly liked an LAC. He used the first University we visited as the measuring stick. In the end, the first visited was the choice.</p>
<p>I know that my husband and I consistently forgot how tension-provoking this process could be for the future applicant. For us, the tours, info, etc. were interesting and informative. I'm not sure they were as much fun for my son, who still had to face the prospect of possibly being turned down by these colleges. Our questions to our son weren't answered in depth. However, the campus visits did serve to help him eliminate a couple of sites from his list. He, too, absorbed a lot more than he shared with us at the time. By the end of the process, he had clear ideas of where he wanted to go and why.</p>
<p>Jasmom, that is an interesting and probably important point for a lot of kids - they are facing the prospect of proving themselves to these schools. If the thinking in that mode, it might be more helpful to think of the process as the college proving itself to you, another reason to not worry so much about ranking or selectivity until the child is actually finalizing the list.
My daughter might have thought that way for a bit, but not for long - she doesn't care too much about what others think, and she had already been through such a big disappointment in the junior year that college was relatively minor. My son, though, I can see him moving into full avoidance mode because of feeling the need to prove himself. Something to keep in mind.</p>
<p>Agree with what other parents are sayiing about tours "sounding the same".</p>
<p>Between sophomore and Junior hs years we did the generic walk around the campus tour at 4 colleges. </p>
<p>This summer, any tour we are taking (2 already, at least 2 more next month) will include a private tour of the engineering department and interview with admissions counselor. </p>
<p>All kids are different, and some could probably "get a feel" for the campus from the tour, but my kid (non-communicative son) didn't perk up until our first tour of an engineering department. </p>
<p>At one college, son and I both met with the admissions counselor, and I did too much of the talking. (I'm still learning what not to do.) At the other, they interviewed son seperately, then invited me in later. I overheard interview. Son did great without me. In the future, if the admissions counselor asks us both into the room, I am going to excuse myself momentarily at that point to let son establish a relationship, then rejoin them afterwards.</p>
<p>Neither of my kids were the least bit interested in looking or thinking of colleges until the first college visit. I am almost positive that my daughter would not have attended the college she is now excelling at if she had not visited. And If I hadn't of seen it with her I wouldn't have understood what made it special.</p>
<p>My son mistakenly thought that it was the major and only the major that was important and it wasn't until we visited an LAC and a technical school that he saw what he liked. By seeing the college that is his number one choice, I think he will be motivated to apply early. I understand that dragging an unwilling student from campus to campus would be horrible but for us, just visiting the first campus was the turning point.</p>