<p>To echo something Jmmom said - the "genre" visits (I like that term), DO NOT have to be expensive at all. There are few areas of the US, except perhaps the Mountain West, that are so isolated that, even a poorer student can not get to a LAC and a state university, and hopefully one mid-sized uni, private if possible. Most students who have the academic chops to be considering selective schools will have been to one or more of these campuses by junior year for some sort of athletic or academic competition, as well.
Go to the far away schools if you can afford it, money or time wise, but soem of what the kid needs to process in their minds, can be obtained from trips to a couple of the most convenient schools.</p>
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I will sheepishly admit that college visits can be as much for the parents as for the kid.
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<p>Yes. Yes. I went on every campus tour with him: UCF, FSU, UNC, UCLA, USC. I had a great time. I love colleges. I'm sure I enjoyed it more than he did.</p>
<p>The first school we visited was the University of Central Florida. It was on a vacation and they have small but fairly good film program. Now UCF is no great shakes academically and it doesn't look like Princeton, but my wife and I were astounded by the amenities offered to today's college students especially when we thought back to our own college days: Barnes and Noble book stores; air conditioned dorms; recreation centers; ATMs; counseling centers. We told our son that we didn't care if he wanted to go to UCF (he didn't) but that his mother and I intended to retire right in the middle of that campus.</p>
<p>tsdad - you and I are missing a fantabulous business opportunity if we don't identify a few languishing college campuses and turn them into retirement communities post-haste. :D</p>
<p>I can relate! Over the years more than a few of our campus visits have been scheduled to meet the needs or satisfy the curiosity of the tour leaders. In planning the trips, college guides have been always been supplemented by Zagats and the indespendible Guide to Historic Hotels and Inns.</p>
<p>Good suggestion Jmmom and is already happening at some of the colleges.<br>
And Byerly, my budget is more the indespedible guide to the Hampton Inns!!</p>
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And Byerly, my budget is more the indespedible guide to the Hampton Inns!!
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For us a chance to run up more Marriott points used with great enjoyment in London (2), Paris, and Amsterdam.</p>
<p>BTW, before one of you wags says something about "boy, you must have gone to a lot of colleges," no we didn't earn all those trips with college visits.</p>
<p>TheDad - I think you are missing my point - you are trying to compare Barnard with Smith based on your experience with Smith (and not Barnard). Since your daughter in reality could attend only one, this is unknowable -- the only people who have any actual knowledge of which of 2 colleges is a better "fit" are those who have transferred - or participated in an exchange -- so that they have experienced both. </p>
<p>Your daughter also applied to some schools that rejected her -- as I recall, one was Yale. (If I am mistaken,excuse me, but for purposes of argument - I will use "Yale" whether or not it is the correct Ivy). Are you saying that you are sure that Smith is a better "fit" than Yale? The reality is that your daughter was deprived of the opportunity of making that choice -- and probably 90% of kids who aspire to reaches are similarly deprived of such an opportunity. So the idea that the student chooses the college that is the best "fit" is illusory in any case -- the student's choices are limited by circumstances. </p>
<p>From what I know from your posts, your daughter would probably have done well at Barnard. You can say using hindsight that you think Smith is a better "fit" -- but if your daughter had chosen Barnard, you'd probably be saying that it was the best fit. If she had gotten into Yale and gone there - you'd be thinking that was the best fit. It's normal to think that -- but it is a subjective thought grounded on the limited experience we have ("are we happy with our choice?") not on empirical evidence ("we have data to compare outcomes with both choices"). </p>
<p>Go rent Sliding Doors. ;)</p>
<p>You never know. The potential love of your daughter's life could be attending Columbia right now. </p>
<p>My mom attended Smith and was miserable and dropped out. She should have gone to Stanford instead. The only problem with that "should have" sentiment is that she hated Smith so much that she went by train to NYC as often as possible, and that's where she met my Dad. She was married at 19. Life happens.</p>
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For us a chance to run up more Marriott points used with great enjoyment in London (2), Paris, and Amsterdam.
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Hmm, is this "to visit, or not to visit" debate the class thing rearing its ugly head again?? I mean - I'm a Day's Inn, Budget Car rental type person-- and eating while traveling usuallly means Denny's. I didn't even know that there was such a thing as "Marriot points".</p>
<p>I am a parent who would like my kids to be happy - but private college is out of the question unless there is adequate financial aid. My daughter wants an out of state private, but says she will be happy with UC Berkeley -- I think she will, and I also think she would be happy at Santa Barbara or Santa Cruz, though happy in a "4 years on vacation" way rather than an "academic challenge" way. She darn well better be happy with one of those colleges - there's a good chance that those will be the only ones she gets into that we can afford. It may be that in the end, she makes her choice based on whether the best "fit" involves redwood trees or a warmer beach. </p>
<p>So maybe my view of the visits being overrated stems from the fact that visiting doesn't really enhance the choice process - it just makes it more difficult, like test-driving a Mercedes before ending up at the Saturn lot. That is, visits can be very useful for highlighting all the deficiencies in the college the kid is stuck with in the end. Hence my preference for deferring visits until after the financial aid award has arrived. </p>
<p>In any case, there's a lot of evidence pyschologically -- and from a marketing standpoint as well - that people do better with less choices, not more. Three options are good -- 12 options are overwhelming, increasing frustration and doubt. So yes - visits to a "type" of campus may be helpful. But then again, for us, "big university" may still end up being the only choice.</p>
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visiting doesn't really enhance the choice process - it just makes it more difficult, like test-driving a Mercedes before ending up at the Saturn lot. That is, visits can be very useful for highlighting all the deficiencies in the college the kid is stuck with in the end.
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Well, calmom, when I am deciding between a Toyota and a Saturn, I don't visit the Mercedes and BMW dealers.</p>
<p>Visiting schools that are not options - financially or academically - makes no sense whatsoever. Granted, it is not an exact science, so there is some margin for error. But visiting entirely out-of-range schools is a misuse of the entire process.</p>
<p>Btw, the "stuck with" syndrome doesn't require the college visit process to rear its ugly head. If I had a nickel for every kid on cc who is wedded to a "dream school" while still a Freshman or Sophomore and believes his/her world will end if she is "stuck" with anything less....</p>
<p>My own experience leads me to believe that most of the bright, creative kids I know, represented by their parents on this list, could (with rare exceptions) be happy and well-educated at a minimum of three or four dozen institutions, and maybe more. And, if not ecstatically happy, at least have found a reasonable way to fit in, and done well. I say that as one who attended a very, very fine school, where I was actually NOT a good fit (AND I visited, and had I been perceptive, which I was not, would have known it), but which opened up opportunities which, to this day, I can only marvel at for my good fortune (and my lack of perceptiveness!) And I am grateful to this day to the college which, while I was not a good fit, made so much of it possible. </p>
<p>And sometimes the twists and turns of our lives are set up by little things that, in retrospect, seemed to have been so inconsequential. I always get a chuckle out of how my 30-year love affair for things Asian began at college, not with a course (never a took a course in anything remotely Asian, had no interest in meditation or gurus or Gandhi) but with a late-night recording played on a college radio station while I was writing a paper, and a mere acquaintance with a student whose family were good friends with the Shah of Iran. </p>
<p>The reality is that most of the kids represented here are already winners - because their parents care so much! Some of us sometimes go a little overboard with our caring (I know I do), and sometimes it is just nice to sit back and watch the little miracles unfold in front of us.</p>
<p>CalMom, "Sliding Doors" is among my favorite movies and I have the DVD.
I also tend to be fond of alternate history and am familiar with its tropes.
As for Yale vs. Smith, from the time of visiting both on the same trip, I thought that Smith was a better fit and was wondering if it came to it if I had the cojones, if asked by my D, to advise Smith over Yale. It didn't help at all when a Yale administrator taking us to lunch sorta went gah-gah when she found that D was also considering Smith and started talking about family members who went there yada yada yada. Fortunately, in a way, being put on the spot for that choice did not come my way.</p>
<p>As for D's present choices, she knows enough about both Smith and Barnard that she is extremely happy that Smith was there for her and there are a number of experiences at/with Smith that simply would not have happened with Barnard which she regards as 10's to her time at Smith. And fwiw, if she hadn't gone to Smith, she would have gone to Wellesley. That comparison is less certain. While the love of her life may be at Columbia, the other love of her life may be at Tufts. Let's hope they don't meet.</p>
<p>Maybe at USC. ;)</p>
<p>Hey. Hey. Hey. Let's not start anything here. TheDad's behavior on the USC-thing has been commendable. No baiting allowed.</p>
<p>TsDad, what do you mean? I've been completely silent. (And <em>what</em> USC thing?)</p>
<p>"Hey. Hey. Hey. Let's not start anything here. TheDad's behavior on the USC-thing has been commendable."</p>
<p>I agree, I'm just intimating there may be an ulterior motive...;)</p>
<p>jmmom - how do we know what school is an option financially until we have the financial aid award in hand? They all promise to provide financial aid to at least some students.</p>
<p>There was a good reason behind my son's logic of waiting until spring to do visiting. The cool thing about my son is that he always has the kind of logical approach to anything that leaves you thinking, "of course, why didn't I think of that" once he's explained it. He's a right-to-the-point kind of person, no tolerance for time-wasting or inefficiency.</p>
<p>I just think that maybe he had it right. My daughter can figure out where to <em>apply</em> from the guidebooks and other information. There is very little to be gained from traveling to visit reach schools where admission is iffy, and less so for safety schools given our California situation.</p>
<p>Sorry I didn't respond to an earlier question about my previous intervention. I think post-acceptance visits are a must. I think the idea of pre-acceptance visits to the specific schools one applies to, or a larger set, is problematic because it's impractical for most students to visit more than a handful of schools. A couple of pre-application visits might be worthwhile (and perhaps adequate) for kids who have never set foot on a college campus to learn about the kinds of things to look for and to help to set criteria for selecting a set of plausible places to apply to. But basic information gathering about schools has to rely on other sources: guidebooks, alumni and friends, web information, and so on.</p>
<p>Of course, some kids visit colleges "early and often," and some search to find their dream school (or what they think is their dream school) so that they can make an ED application. But my kids didn't apply ED and they were actively discouraged (by their parents) from getting their heart set on just one school. They were looking for a "handful" of schools that seemed to offer the programs and the overall quality of academic and nonacademic life that they might find interesting -- a half dozen schools, including an in-state public.</p>
<p>The set of all schools that might suit their taste was extremely large, certainly dozens in my son's case, but far fewer in my daughter's case (given her interest in BFA studio art). Besides, as a high school debater, my son had visited many colleges for tournaments (and a couple for summer debate camps), and his dad is a college prof. So he wasn't interested in touring or visiting schools for the purpose deciding where to apply to college. He did his visits after he was admitted. The only problem was that they were all over the country and so he never did visit one of those schools.</p>
<p>In my daughter's case, she learned a lot about schools and programs from her summer precollege art programs. She did make one "grand tour" to look a dozen colleges (some of which were of interest to a friend of hers who also came on the trip), and ended up applying to two of those, plus three others.</p>
<p>Things worked out well for both kids. Excellent schools, never any regrets about their (limited) options or the choice they ultimately made from the schools that accepted them.</p>
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There is very little to be gained from traveling to visit reach schools where admission is iffy...
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I do agree with you here, calmom. As many have said, the uber-selectives could care less if you demonstrate interest. Visiting tons of them, which are a lottery for everyone, can certainly set a kid up for disappointment. And, as many have said here on cc, the "Help! I can't decide between Harvard and Yale! Where should I go?!" threads become old quickly. Our visits included only one HYPS, the rest reasonable reaches/matches/safeties. I think this makes sense for a lot of kids and was certainly the right thing for our S (which is all that matters, of course).</p>
<p>Also, you Californians (and I was one for years and have a Cal degree) really face a different landscape in the college app/selection/admission world. So, I think for those seriously considering/preferring the UC's/CSU's/California cc's, the idea of the College Grand Tour is much less relevant.</p>