I’d say Brandeis is a low-reach, not quite a match.
If she avails her self of one of Brandeis’ options which involves not sending ACT/SAT scores, that will help for sure.
Great post and advice on schools. Agree about retaking SATs/ACTs. And Subject Tests are a must. I let my youngest son forgo them last year as he felt he wasn’t going to apply to any schools which required them. It was a big mistake. While he had a great acceptance list, he was also compared to his peers in the app process for Merit Aid. Those scores and entire application often are factored in with merit decisions.
Since your D like cities, humanities, and photography, you might consider adding NYU and Penn. And definitely Northeastern. Perhaps your daughter could do a summer program at one of her potential schools, either in a major related course, or photography. It would be a great way to get a feel for a school and the city it is in. While there, you can visit other colleges on either end of the program. It can be pricey, but definitely worth it.
I’m from the Boston area and have visited a myriad of Northeast schools with my three boys. Feel free to PM me anytime. We also love cities. Philly is super nice as the winters are a bit kinder, Spring comes earlier, and there’s a lot to be said for the friendliness that comes from the City of Brotherly Love. We fell in love for sure when our oldest attended undergrad there.
Good luck!
NOT sending scores to Brandeis? Her SATs are comfortably above their average.
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In fact, the draw of a free ride for NMF scholarship is very (too?) interesting to her.
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I don’t know why you’d think that a free ride for NMF scholarship may be “too” interesting to her? At some schools, particularly at Bama, 30% of the students have the same or higher stats as she. If she pursues a challenging major, as it appears she will, she will surrounded by students with very good stats.
@merc81: You only want to submit scores to a test optional school if you scores are at the high-upper end of their range.
PLUS her scores don’t really “support” her GPA. Her GPA is much better than her scores, so she should stick with the aspect of her app that’s strongest.
OP when running your NPC’s are you in a class of persons (self-employed/divorced) that might make the numbers less reliable?
For those who asked about test re-takes, she’s awaiting her latest ACT score (the 31 was from fall of junior year). She had already retaken the SAT, jumping from 1960 to 2120. There probably are some points to pick up there, if needed, since her math score was only in the low-600s and she’d gotten a 71 on the PSAT. We just weren’t sure if it was necessary. She will be taking Latin SAT II in two weeks and can pick up another SAT subject test in the fall.
@mom2collegekids it’s not that she’s above those big NMF schools at all. we have friends with a daughter at Oklahama on NMF and she loves it. For my D, it has to do with her preference of smaller LAC in big city. I don’t want her to choose a school only because she’s concerned about debt.
@TempeMom i am concerned about that because my husband went back to school and now is working, so our numbers have been fluctuating a bit. hard to know exactly how it will shake out. biggest problem with some of the CSS schools is that they count 100% of home equity as an asset… i’m new to this but i think that’s why schools like barnard are showing an EFC that’s 7K more than others? What, are we supposed to sell our house to tap our equity? Seems nuts. I know FAFSA doesn’t count home equity.
and, thank you @CapeCodLady8 both for school suggestions and the PM offer. I will likely take you up on that after i wade through the thread again and come up with some good follow-up questions.
@soze The danger of that strategy is in having Brandeis admissions, without her top third scores, wondering if the reason she didn’t submit them is because she has bottom quartile scores. When you don’t submit scores, admissions doesn’t give you the “benefit” of the doubt – they think you didn’t submit them because the scores are poor. Sure, they don’t have any scores to “evaluate”, but the non-scores also cast a reflection. Even when a student feels the need to hide a bottom quartile score, you have to question whether the school is really a good academic fit.
“You only want to submit scores to a test optional school if the scores are in the high-upper end of their range.”
Through iteration over several cycles, this would lead to a condition in which it would be inadvisable for virtually anyone to submit their scores.
Before you take any free CC advice about not submitting your daughter’s very respectable SAT/ACT scores to Brandeis, you should probably look at the Common Data Set for Brandeis to see exactly where they fall. http://www.brandeis.edu/opir/commondata.html See what her most recent ACT scores look like before she decides whether to take anything over. But there are definitely kids who benefit from the extra few months between spring of junior year and fall of senior year. Yale does sound like a reach for SCEA (as it does for almost everyone) but what about the possibility of applying EA to Yale and applying ED 2 to another school? I think Brandeis, Tufts, Wesleyan have ED 2 and a number of others.
Thanks, @uesmomof2 and @merc81 for the input on scores. We eagerly await her latest ACT and are more sure than ever that a fall trip to look at the NYC/Boston schools is needed.
If a top choice emerges, she would head in that direction, possibly using ED to help – although I need to do more research about financial aid and binding early decision anywhere.
I guess we were thinking SCEA would be a harmless roll of the dice for Yale, but I now realize it would take away a real admission bump if she has a top choice that she has a better chance of getting in to … which brings me back to fears about binding ED and financial aid.
I’m going to do more looking around on EFCs and and try to get a more accurate measure of our income this year vs. last (it will be different).
The good news is that we also have a good dozen ideas for schools based on answers to this thread and some of them look promising.
I don’t want to tag each person but really do appreciate the thoughtful and informative answers.
Hopefully your daughter’s ACT score goes up! A 2120 is by no means a terrible score but for Yale, it might be tough to be even looked at. If your daughter was seriously thinking about Yale, she’d need a 33+. If she really loves Barnard, I would have her apply ED there. With either her current ACT, current SAT or a higher ACT, she has a good shot of getting in applying ED.
Tufts, Brandeis and Wellesley are reaches. BU and Fordham are probably matches. The safeties that you have lined up in the first post are great. Reach-y places she may also like are Vassar, University of Rochester, Reed, Smith, and Amherst. Some safety-matchish places she could consider are Skidmore, Bryant and DePaul,
If Bryn Mawr is a possibility, why not Haverford, too? They’re literally next to each other, coordinate class schedules so you can take classes at either, allow you to use the meal card at either, and I think (but am not sure) that FA is better at Haverford.
The University of Rochester would be great for both Photography and Mock Trial. Our oldest attends med school there and we love it and were pleasantly surprised to find how much we enjoy Rochester as a city. Lots to do and beautiful parks. The people are very nice there as well. Nice add to your list!
First of all, congrats on your DD’s academic progress, and kuddos to you for being in the search along side of her in this process. It can be daunting for newbies that have opportunities and constraints to consider, along with student’s desires on major and type of school. If you are in/near MPLS, you have the advantage of lower cost airline flights to major cities, for school break travel.
To add, you really want to consider three financial safeties (the list may be determined if she is a NMF), and if her ACT goes to 32.
The college visits may assist in helping determine the ‘feel’ of a campus. This can be a guide for other schools not visited but considered and applied to - for later potential visit. As a summer visitor to cities like Boston and NY, you are seeing it like a tourist. How much is she actually going to venture off of campus, and how much should that weigh in.
Along the way, you may really want to also consider not using up the financial resources for UG; an academically strong student can often continue into a grad program if limiting debt from UG - and can open up more career opportunities going this route than a high priced UG degree. So is your financial assistance $20K/yr through UG and then she is on her own?
At large schools, there can be honors programs that can make the UG experience ‘feel’ like a small college. She may be able to have opportunities available that a smaller school cannot provide.
With her mock trial strengths, is she looking for a school with a strong debate team program, and is she considering or thinking about law school?
How much DD loves Boston or NY (or other major city) weighing out the financial picture, and leaving room open for not using up all resources in UG…
DD is use to the winters. Maybe venturing south or warmer climate would be a great change.
Update: We are finalizing plans to visit Drexel, Barnard, Fordham, Boston U, Northeastern (thanks for the suggestion) and Wellesley during one East Coast sweep.
Some schools are off the list (Yale, Tufts) and others have been added (mostly photo-focused). She’s pretty adamant she doesn’t want to test again.
Of the schools on the trip, Drexel, BU and Northeastern would have more extensive photography and/or photojournalism options. (Her interest in this has only solidified since original post.)
She remains quite interested in Barnard but is concerned about lack of means to explore photography. (There are some classes through Columbia.)
We also will visit Mizzou, where she’s guaranteed in-state tuition (I’m an alum), direct admission to journalism school and also to honors college. Others she will consider are ASU (for journalism, honors college, great merit aid) and possibly Nebraska-Lincoln (up-and-coming photo program with funding for international travel). If she goes route of photoJ, we would strongly suggest a double major, which shouldn’t be too difficult as long as it’s planned from the start.
In a couple weeks, we will know if she made cut for National Merit, which would definitely affect whether she would apply to Drexel or ASU (both of which guarantee free tuition for NMF).
Hopefully after those two trips, things will be more clear …
Might want to look at Holy Cross-1 hour from Boston. Holy Cross is a very good LAC that meets 100% of demonstrated financial need. In addition HC has a fantastic Classics major(Latin) and offers merit scholarships in that area. The Holy Cross alumni network and school spirit is tops ant the HC website very informative.
Joining in late here, and it sounds like the Barnard ED app is less likey, but wanting to comment on declining an ED acceptance for financial reasons. If you run the NPC and decide that it’s workable before you apply, then if the actual award is less than the NPC predicted, it seems you’ve got the basis for appeal and declining the acceptance if the appeal doesn’t work. But if you’re not happy with the NPC result up front and don’t think you could swing it, the ED application isn’t a good idea.
Thanks @hs2015mom and @par72 … I’ll look into Holy Cross, and hopefully all (or most) will be revealed after the trip
Update: We’re back from our east coast trip and it certainly did help clarify things. A couple schools have fallen off the list while others moved up.
I also just had some sobering moments with two schools’ net price calculators …
The basics: My D will not be applying to Yale, Barnard or Wellesley. Yale was never really her dream and she had no interest in testing again to improve scores. She didn’t love the size or feel of the Barnard campus (although she had a great talk with a senior interviewer) and has become far less enamored of a pure LAC for a college. She’s been in small, seminar-style classes for years at her charter school and wants to really dive into some hands-on stuff. So…
She’s focusing on schools with some type of new media/digital design/photography programs, with strong opportunities for internships/co-ops.
The revised list:
Boston University (loved the campus, programming, vibe)
Fordham-Lincoln Center (ditto)
Northeastern (not completely sure about it, probably didn’t help that we visited just before trip to airport)
Drexel (slightly concerned photo program was not broad enough or inclusive of other topics)
Missouri (already accepted, including direct admission to journalism school and Honors program)
Considering applying:
RIT (strong photo program)
ASU (strong journalism and photography programs, honors college)
USC (journalism/photo mix)
Now for the depressing news, I took another run through net price calculators, and both BU and Fordham are returning some pretty frightening numbers. Our FAFSA EFC hovers just over $20K, and need-blind CSS schools have given us numbers closer to $25k-$29k … which is doable, if not easy. Fordham and BU do not promise to meet all need – which I knew – but ouch … to see numbers in the very high $30s to low $40s is painful and frankly impossible. My D is frugal and will not go into major debt for a degree. (She’d consider direct loans, but when a school’s calculator – Fordham – starts suggesting Parent Plus loans … well, that’s just not happening.)
We can only hold out hope that she draws some of the large, merit-based scholarships available at those schools. They might be a stretch but are not outside the realm of possibility.
The good news is that ASU, Drexel and Mizzou are financial safeties (due to likely NMF, or in the case of Missouri the merit award she already has in hand) and seem to be programmatic matches … even if they’re not in large urban cities, which was her hope. (Of course, Drexel is in Philadelphia, but she was less sure of the campus/program there!)
If anyone has schools we should be thinking about (based on her current list/goals), please share.