@ucbalumnus Why not? Anything you create can be used for many years, right? Calculus isn’t changing and evolving. 
As far as incentive, the school can take some of the $$ it is spending on AP and redirect it towards a stipend for those teachers helping create new curriculum. Might be a nice financial supplement and project during a summer for dedicated teachers. How would the student not get credit if their transcript indicates they took a more advanced level of a course and accomplished greater mastery of the subject vs a more basic level? Seems pretty straightforward to me.
Colleges are less likely to allow credit or advanced placement for a purely high school calculus (or other) course without external validation (AP score or college credit through a dual enrollment arrangement).
Now, if a high school calculus teacher were to cover the AP calculus material in greater depth, while still having students fully prepared for the AP test (and encouraging the students to take it), and not bothering to pay the CB for the AP name or whatever for the course, that is certainly possible. But that is not the same as completely abandoning AP calculus.
Taking a look at a sample transcript, http://www.mastery.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Transcript-example_v4.png, maybe three areas out of eight correspond to mastery of traditional academic subjects. If you think there’s too much regurgitation on AP tests, the solution isn’t to replace it with a completely subjective process, where the teacher or guidance counselor evaluates students on personality traits and buzzword gibberish like flexibility.
In Ohio - The combination of transferable credits and their guidelines https://www.ohiohighered.org/transfer coupled with the high school’s ability to partner with institutions of higher learning to provide access to college credit courses on site https://www.ohiohighered.org/content/college_credit_plus_info_students_families has the effect of turning every public hs in Ohio into a location to access college classes. Because the hs is responsible for providing up to 120 semester credits per student a cost control strategy becomes negotiating with higher ed institutions to pay by class for instruction on site and urge students to schedule provided classes. We are moving toward “colleges at a public high school without the AP framework” for providing rigor and these classes are being offered onsite at both small and large public high schools. While intended to curb costs, the access allows younger students to participate and many complete their hs diploma requirements in 3 years, leaving the traditionally senior year of high school to take place entirely on a campus usually in sophomore level classes.
Kids see they don’t have to wake up at 6 in the morning to be at hs senior year and are very motivated by that freedom.
AoPS is a good example of teaching more advanced content without following AP guidelines. My d’s took AoPS cal, did not have AP on his transcript, but he easily scored a 5 on BC.
I am a university professor in a STEM area and many of the courses I teach have calculus as a pre-req. The idea that a 5 on BC calculus isn’t good enough prep for this is silly. Now students may choose to retake Calc1 or 2, but that is usually for a combination of improving GPA and/or schedule management to help spread out time consuming courses. I’ve seen no evidence this is different in a science like Chemistry (don’t know as much about bio). For that matter, all discussions I know of at the university level about reducing credit for AP outside of STEM are about a view that the course in question should be taken at the university, and not driven evidence of any inferiority of mastery for students who had AP credit.
So I’m not a high school teacher, but I know our HS reasonably well, and I don’t see the evidence of huge $$ for APs. Are the extra $$ being discussed the test fees? I am unaware of any $$ beyond that. I’d guess for calculus, the hardest part is finding HS math teachers comfortable teaching it.
Re: #36
A 36 doesn’t guarantee anything but as long as the rest of your app isn’t a train wreck you will probably get into at least one top 20 school.
The College Board does not charge a fee for using the AP designation on a course. As a homeschooler, I have submitted a number of my syllabi to the College Board for approval to use the AP designation and have never been charged a fee.
There is an AP Course Audit process that a high school must go through to label the course as an AP course on the transcript. However, a high school may still offer AP exams regardless of whether the related course has been through the AP Course Audit.
It is possible for a high school to offer courses that cover the material tested in the AP exams without going through the AP Course Audit process, and not calling those courses AP courses (even if they cover the same material at similar or greater rigor). However, that is different from just disregarding any consideration of AP material or exams altogether. Indeed, it would not be surprising if some of the more elite high schools that do not want to offer AP courses simply dropped out of the AP Course Audit process but still have courses that include the material that students need to succeed on the AP exams.
I’m fine with any of the ways discussed to show reasonable master of the material - AP test without AP “course”, advanced course that covers material and more with AP test, test offered by university, the Ohio system with HS connected to university, gosh knows what else.
But I’m completely with roethlisburger in post #62.
You can’t possibly know that’s a lie. It may be untrue, but a lie is an intentional false statement. You don’t know that the author intentionally made a false statement. I
I’m sorry, but the overuse of the word “lie” a a huge pet peeve of mine.
In my HS there were three academic tracks:
Modified - For below average students
Academic - For average students
Honors/AP - Above average students
Obviously the grade were weighted differently towards your GPA. For a example, and A in an Honors/AP course would be a 4.0 while an A in an Academic level course would be a 3.5 and in General an a might be a 3.0. But there was no distinction between the an Honors course and an AP course. AP Chemistry, for example, was the highest level chemistry offered, and the only way to get a 4.0 in Chemistry.
I don’t know if other schools operate similarly, but I suspect they do. Which means that AP courses would by definition be required to gain admission to a selective college.
@Ufotofu9 AP courses are important but having worked in admissions at any Ivy, I can state emphatically that it isn’t necessarily true that it is better to have a 3.6 in AP courses as opposed to a 4.0 in regular or honors ones. This is especially true if you go to a highly regarded school. Those “As” do matter.
@doschicos I cannot speak for all universities, but when I worked in admissions we reviewed applications electronically. The admissions clerks entered the information we saw. At my particular college, under transcripts there was a notation of “school reported cumulative GPA” and two-year GPA (junior and senior). There was also a ‘flag’ that indicated whether the school weighted grades. We didn’t see the actual transcript albeit we could request it (I can never recall doing so). It worked the same way with SAT scores, the clerks updating the system to reflect the highest scores earned.
I think some people think that admissions counsellors still get ‘folders’ to read or see the actual Common App. This may be the case at some universities, but it wasn’t at ours. Indeed, the only time I can remember entire applications being downloaded and printed was when some discrepancy was noted and the application was being more closely reviewed.
@exlibris97 So, I’m curious as to what your school does when they receive a transcript without a GPA or even a traditional grading system? Such schools do exist. I’m sure there are no longer paper folders as apps are submitted electronically but the application “package” (grades, essays, recommendations) are still considered, just electronically now. No need to print. Just like we read news online, pay bills online, etc. I suppose.
How do you know whether the “school reported cumulative GPA” is based on an exaggerated weighting system, like the ones that can result in 6.something GPAs? A 4.3 weighted GPA could mean a 4.0 unweighted GPA, or a 2.9 unweighted GPA, depending on the weighting system.
@exlibris97 Did you work at a large state university with large numbers of applicants or a smaller private college? I work for a large university and see more “weeding out” using GPA for various programs and scholarship opportunities than I would like to see. A 4.0 GPA from an underfunded rural public school is very different than a 3.3 GPA from a rigorous urban public, private or boarding school with a tougher grading policy. Students with lower GPA’s who tackled a more rigorous curriculum may be better prepared for college work that students who have higher GPA’s from other schools.
AP classes are important for those in public schools that are not “loaded”; bright public school kids get college credit in most state colleges and can start college with the next level courses, saving thousands in the process; I know quite a few that were able to graduate in 3 years because of the excellent results in AP tests. But hey, elites don’t care about these details, as ivies barely give any credit for a limited number of AP scores of 5, $ to pay for 4 years of college is not generally an issue for those coming from elite prep schools and applying to elite colleges.
Totally agree@turtle17, AP courses may not be perfect, but they are the best public school kids have in a deeply flawed education system. As long as CC and flagships will consider APs for placement and credit, it’s the only way to pursue a meaningful degree if you’re not in top 10% income. Just, how does the author expect a public school student major in engineering, for example, if they can’t even take AP Calc BC, AP Physics and AP Chem-yes, I know, they can go to college spend 10, 000 , take Calc , Chem 101, etc, maybe even do badly in them and one year down the road and 10, 000 in debt change major intent, or drop altogether.
Terrific read. Thanks for throwing a spotlight on an important trend.
One major trend is the university’s tuition price tag is out of touch…