<p>Agree with blossom. The rules are clear. And there is no way, noimagination, that I would see how you would penalize poorer kids whose families "receive more from the state in social services than they pay in taxes. " How would that work?</p>
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<p>Except… your state tax dollars in whatever state you’re in do not go to support my state’s schools. </p>
<p>I thought that was clear… our state universities are STATE, not national universities.</p>
<p>If we had to do it over again, I would have pushed for DH to retire from the military in Virginia rather than Maryland. Virginia has state laws that provide for gifted kids’ education and the universities are far more diverse and academically superior to Maryland, IMO.</p>
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<p>But how about the citizens of State X who work in and pay taxes to another state (typically adjoining). Thousands of people work in NYC and pay taxes to the State of New York and NYC, but live in NJ or CT. Professional sports players have to pay state taxes in every state where they play a game. Should they be considered citizens of all of those states also.</p>
<p>JHS raises some good questions.</p>
<p>I live in a border state to NY. I work in NYC. I have no doubt that if a colleague were to call 911, the EMT’s would show up and treat me, even though I am not a resident of NYC or NY State. I use public transportation (both city and state funded). I “consume” city services when I throw my trash into a bin on the street which gets collected by a city worker. I “consume” state services when I ride on a road maintained by NY state, or a bridge built by state funds. I don’t believe this entitles my kid to in-state tuition at an NY State university- I get taxed on my NYS earnings because I benefit from all the services that a resident does on a regular basis because of my place of employment.</p>
<p>How is this at all complicated?</p>
<p>Lasma notes, " The OP’s trick only worked because it hadn’t occurred to the school that someone would go to those lengths, and therefore had not specifically prohibited them. And the OP himself senses that if they had known, they would have prevented him"</p>
<p>Response: I never said this or sensed this. You are putting in your own words and feelings. I didn’t tell too many people about what I was doing because as I specifically noted, “I didn’t want Ohio or UC to change the law.” Again what I did isn’t the main issue. I only mentioned this fact in establishing that I have used some of the strategies in the article cited. Yes, I felt that the article was a bit abridged especially when I read the underlying book that they cite, which by the way , was a very well written book.</p>
<p>Frankly, I think that the whole idea of “instate tuition” is a bit sketchy and agree with those such as Golffather. We all pay taxes, and in some cases pay more than others.This is one country last time I checked. If there are programs not offered or not of good quality in a kid’s home state, I personally think these kids should be able to go out of state and get instate rates. In fact, I don’t think there should be a difference between instate and out of state rates. I think everyone would benefit and many states might attract more talent than they would otherwise. Sadly, this won’t happen since states want the extra money that they can charge out of state kids, which is why California is increasing their admission rate of out of state kids.</p>
<p>College costs can be backbreaking for many families even for those considered affluent. Reducing them legally ( using a “good neighbor policy” or an “Academic Common Market” or some other strategy ) seems to make sense to me.</p>
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No, this is a federation of 50 states. That’s why it is called the “United States” and why we generally refer to the federal government rather than the “national” government. (See US Constitution, Article 4 and Amendment 10) </p>
<p>I don’t think you would be saying it is all “one country” if the state of Ohio tried to collect income tax from you. </p>
<p>I would assume that the state you live in has a university that your child could have attended at in-state rates.</p>
<p>You claim to live in Maryland, which has an excellent public university and charges less than the rate of tuition you paid to send your daughter to school in Ohio. So you have no cause to complain of “backbreaking” costs.</p>
<p>Calmom, You don’t probably live in Maryland, so you wouldn’t be saying what you did. Maryland does NOT offer the breadth of majors that California offers. Maryland has some excellent programs and schools. HOWEVER, their offerings in majors is quite limited compared to a state like Ohio or California. They do not have, for example, good programs in art and design. They don’t have a very strong music program other than what Hopkins offers, which is a private school.</p>
<p>In fact, my daughter got a small scholarship to go to University of Cincinnati from Maryland since the major that she wanted wasn’t offered anywhere in the state system or even in the schools associated with the Academic Common Market. Again, I had to do a LOT of research to find out that Maryland does give some scholarship money for students seeking majors not offered by a Maryland state university. This isn’t widely publicized.</p>
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<p>So you believed that what you were doing, if known, might have prompted a change in the law. Does that give you any clues about the ethics of what you were doing?</p>
<p>BTW, you didn’t respond to my question from two days ago:</p>
<p>What do you think is the purpose of the rules which you so successfully avoided following? Why does UC have in-state tuition?</p>
<p>taxguy, I thought your daughter became an Ohio resident to get instate Ohio rates? So, she got help from both her home state of Maryland AND the state of Ohio that she went to school in? Did Maryland know she had become an Ohio resident?</p>
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If the idea is that we should give lower tuition to people who “support the school by actually living, working, and paying taxes in the state” then why does that apply to people who do not work and do not pay taxes? Should people who pay more in taxes get lower tuition, because they do more to “support the school”?</p>
<p>It seems to me that the external benefits from public higher education should (key word is should) offer a sufficient justification for taxpayer support without any discounting benefits. I don’t ask for direct payback on taxpayer investments in infrastructure or the social safety net.</p>
<p>I do get what y’all are saying and I’m not trying to be deliberately argumentative here. I guess I think that people can benefit from the way the system works in a lot of different ways that may or may not accord with our values (I think a lot about merit aid in that context). My own house has a few too many windows for me to start throwing stones at someone for crossing the intent of a rule that seems like a political gimmick anyway.</p>
<p>Alternatives? I’d rather see more financial aid for graduates of in-state high schools, or maybe loan repayment programs for university grads who remain in the state to work after leaving school. Plus a greater focus on controlling costs, of course.
I’m very surprised that she was able to get this as an Ohio resident. Do you mind sharing the source, now that she has graduated?</p>
<p>So Maryland taxpayers give scholarships to Ohio residents who study IN OHIO because their choice of major is not offered in the State of Maryland? Or Maryland taxpayers give scholarships to Maryland residents who study out of state? And somehow your D managed to bend the laws of time and space and is a legal resident of Ohio and Maryland simultaneously?</p>
<p>Ah, double dipping.</p>
<p>noimagination, my daughter got a Maryland Delegate Scholarship, which is mostly awarded on merit, but the amount given is need based. Although it’s been a while, I think it was given to kids with very decent high school GPAs who want to major in a subject NOT available through Maryland state universities or through the Academic Common Market. It isn’t limited to attending Ohio schools. This was, however, given to her 6 or 7 years ago. Things may have changed since then.</p>
<p>Las ma notes,"Ah, double dipping. "
Response: Seriously, what is your problem? There are many kids who get multiple scholarships through national merit, Fast Web and through many other sources. Parents just need to do some research. It wasn’t publicized in Maryland well. I only accidentally found out about it from a lobbyist.</p>
<p>By the way, as part of the rule to get instate tuition, as noted in the article cited above, my daughter had to adopt all the indicia of being an instate domicile of Ohio and giving up residence in Maryland. This means that she needed a bank account there, a driver’s license and needed to change her voter’s registration and pay taxes to Ohio instead of Maryland. It actually wasn’t that hard to do. While I was researching this for Ohio schools, I found that other states had similar laws and if my daughter wanted to go elsewhere, I could have accomplished the same thing in most other states. Again, since each state is different, research needs to be undertaken to ensure compliance.</p>
<p>Las Ma, As for your question about the intent of giving instate tuition, frankly, this is irrelevant to me. It isn’t my job to research legislative history. I simply check the rules of the college and the state rules for switching residency. At the time, there were no one year requirement of residence required to switch from out of state to instate residency. Moreover, there were a number of people doing it in Ohio. The law school used to recommend the procedure that I used for all out of state law students in order to switch to Ohio Residency after the first year. It was the UC law school’s information about this to its students that gave me the initial idea.</p>
<p>It’s still very slimy. Just because there’s a loophole doesn’t mean you should use it. Sorry. I live in a state with very high instate tuition and very little funding to higher ed. The idea of someone coming in under false pretenses and legally scamming their way into in-state tuition makes my skin crawl. </p>
<p>There are many things that are technically legal due to loopholes that many people just don’t do because they know that it’s wrong. Obviously, some don’t care.</p>
<p>Is the Maryland Delegate Scholarship typically awarded to Ohio residents?</p>
<p>The Maryland Delegate scholarship is specifically limited to Maryland residents:</p>
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[Delegate</a> Scholarship Program](<a href=“http://www.mhec.state.md.us/financialaid/programdescriptions/prog_delegate.asp]Delegate”>http://www.mhec.state.md.us/financialaid/programdescriptions/prog_delegate.asp)</p>
<p>The scholarship ordinarily can be used only to attend colleges or career schools in Maryland, but there is a process to allow application to out-of-state institutions if the student can demonstrate that the desired major is not offered anywhere in Maryland. See <a href=“http://www.mhec.state.md.us/financialaid/Unique%20Major%20Application%2003202013%202.pdf[/url]”>http://www.mhec.state.md.us/financialaid/Unique%20Major%20Application%2003202013%202.pdf</a></p>
<p>The general examples that Taxman provided (art and design, music) would not qualify for a scholarship to attend an out of state school, because there are some excellent private schools in Maryland offering those majors, and the Maryland Delegate scholarship can be applied toward any private program in-state. (I’d note that Taxman did not specify exactly what his daughter’s unique, not available in Maryland, major is.)</p>
<p>Calmom, thanks. So to summarize: since the Maryland Delegate Scholarship doesn’t specifically prohibit applying for it, and then qualifying and accepting it while a Maryland resident, and THEN moving and qualifying for in-state residency in Ohio, it is perfectly legal to accept both a Maryland- only scholarship while simultaneously establishing in-state residency in Ohio. And although it is perfectly legal, one doesn’t brag about having figured out how to essentially be a legal resident in two states (not even adjacent) simultaneously- for four years-- because once Maryland discovers that it has paid an Ohio resident to attend college in Cincinnati, they are likely to eliminate this loophole. Or, once Ohio discovers that it has given in-state preferential pricing to a Maryland resident, who is even qualifying for a Maryland-only scholarship, to attend a public U in Ohio, that THEY will eliminate their loophole.</p>
<p>So it’s two loopholes in one, right?</p>
<p>Am I following the logic here?</p>
<p>It’s hard for me to see how one could comply with the requirements for both OH state residency and the MD Delegate Scholarship, unless something has changed in the past few years.</p>
<p>blossom: The link says that reapplication is required for renewal, so I don’t think that would work. Theoretically, I suppose the timing could work out such that both would be available for the first year, depending on the specific documentation needed.</p>
<p>I’m still trying to figure out how taxguy got his daughter to go along with this scheme. Maybe I missed the explanation on that. The whole thing seems rather convoluted and kids certainly know what state they are from and where their parents live!</p>