Flawed yet rigorous transcript--where to look?

Parent Cafe
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<p>We all know that the answer to "does it look better to have A's in non-AP classes or B's in APs?" is to get A's in the APs. What to do for the kid who takes on the challenging curriculum, but doesn't pull the A's? How about the kid who ends up with a few C's, and is feeling like she won't get in anywhere?</p>

<p>Small public magnet, entry by test
30-40% of students typically designated as NMF</p>

<p>GPA: around 3.2 UW/3.8 W
32 ACT (will retake), 231 PSAT
3 AP tests so far (3,4,5 scores), 4 more this year, 5 next year (typical for her school)
No idea about class rank (includes students from much larger and far less rigorous resident school and uses unweighted average). Definitely not top 10%, possibly top 25%, definitely top 50%. </p>

<p>Several hundred hours of volunteer work, significant involvement and leadership (local and regional) with our synagogue's youth group. Some music ECs which are enjoyable relaxation for her, but not standout-type level involvement. </p>

<p>Not looking for merit/need-based aid.</p>

<p>Recommendations and essays should be strong; at least one rec will come from a teacher who's given her C course grades but praises her work. She interviews well; a Cal professor spent an evening talking with her when she was in 8th grade and told me that she was far more mature than most of his undergrad students. :) </p>

<p>General wish list: Political science, subject to change. Smart student body or subcluster (e.g. honors college), challenging academics. A significant Jewish community is important. City is preferred over rural locations. Party reputation and greek life are negatives. A sustainability program with opportunities for involvement would be a big positive. </p>

<p>Prior to this week's academic setback, she's been interested in Berkeley (instate), Pitt, Tufts, U of Rochester, Pitzer/Pomona, DC schools, Macalester, and wants to check out Sonoma State (no idea about the Hillel) and Sacramento State (Hillel is at Davis). </p>

<p>Initially liked then fell out of like with Muhlenberg, UC Davis, Clark U and U of Oregon.</p>

<p>Disliked Brandeis, tour of Bryn Mawr confirmed she's not interested in women's schools. Kind of liked Reed, but thought the student body was a little too out there for her, plus there's no Hillel. A pity, since the Reed adcoms adore her high school.</p>

<p>We'll make her tour Santa Cruz (probably the best fit of the lower UCs for her), but she's not happy about it. :rolleyes: She'll probably also put tickmarks on a few other UCs on her application. </p>

<p>What other schools should she investigate? A reminder, since it's important and since it might rule out many schools: she wants an active Jewish community. </p>

<p>Thanks for any and all suggestions.</p>

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<p>Has she looked at UO’s honors college? My D is there and really loves it. Here’s a website for the Sonoma Hillel: [SONOMA</a> HILLEL](<a href=“http://sonomahillel.org/]SONOMA”>http://sonomahillel.org/)</p>

<p>Good luck. I’m sure she’ll have some wonderful options.</p>

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<p>Too bad your PM box is full!</p>

4

<p>Here is the Claremont Hillel site - [Hillel</a> at the Claremont Colleges](<a href=“The Claremont Colleges Services – The Claremont Colleges Services (TCCS) is the central coordinating and support organization for a highly regarded cluster of seven independent colleges known as The Claremont Colleges located in Southern California.”>The Claremont Colleges Services – The Claremont Colleges Services (TCCS) is the central coordinating and support organization for a highly regarded cluster of seven independent colleges known as The Claremont Colleges located in Southern California.)
For what it’s worth, my D (Catholic) attends Pitzer and most of her friends are Jewish. She seems very happy in Claremont and takes many classes at the other colleges.
If your D is interested in political science, how about Claremont McKenna?
Very strong PSAT! I hope she scores as well on the SAT.</p>

5

<p>I think you’ll have a ton of choices, but she should check out University of Chicago and Kalamazoo College (used to be very strong in Poli Sci/econ/IR)…if Macalester should look at Carlton (uncertain bout poli sci/econ/IR compared to Mac) and Beloit (not sure bout Beloit poli sci/IR/eccon compared to Mac) and Middlebury. I have no clue about the Jewish %/strength/Hillel for any of these schools.</p>

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<p>Clark in Worcester, MA.<br>
Oberlin (not in a city, but near to Cleveland, though I don’t think students go in that much)
Connecticut College (has an active Jewish life; not sure how “significant” though)
Vassar – Poughkeepsie is a big town (ie, not a town that just is for the college) and students can get into NYC pretty easily
I think BU (Boston U.) has an honors program? would imagine a large Jewish presence there.
Fairly certain that a number of the universities in the South have large Jewish presences: I know that Emory and WashU do; those are the only ones we looked at.</p>

<p>Carleton has a small, but active Jewish presence.</p>

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<p>When she visited Bryn Mawr, did she also look at Haverford or Swarthmore?</p>

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<p>The above suggestions are great, but most are more selective than the ones the OP’s D is already looking at. For instance, CArleton is a great school, but more selective than Macalester. Ditto Swarthmore, Haverford, and Middlebury. (I myself want to suggest Wesleyan, which she seems tailor made for.) Her record still may get her in to them, but I’m assuming you’re looking for a bit more safety-ish. One suggestion–you say she’s going to retake the ACT. what about SAT? that’s an outstanding PSAT score! I’m pretty sure it’s higher than her ACT. An SAT over 2300 may open a lot of doors.</p>

<p>That being said–schools like the ones you listed that are somewhat less selective but still have the same ambience. How about Bard, Goucher, Lewis and Clark, Clark, Skidmore? As far as strong Jewish presence, it seems to me ethat most of the progressive LACs have that in my experience, anyway. At least, I’m sure that’s true for the NE ones.</p>

<p>Best wishes, ST. She sounds like a wonderful young woman, who will find the right place.</p>

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<p>I may not be reading the Op’s post carefully enough, but doesn’t American U in DC fulfill alot of these requirements?</p>

<p>1) poli sci sctrength
2) city location
3) not huge greek/party life: it’s there if you want it but not mandatory
4)very active Jewish groups
5) huge opportunities for community involvement
6) not huge</p>

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<p>I would agree–that’s a great choice!</p>

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<p>I think her rank is really going to hurt her in those schools you listed. I can never remember what a 3.2 translates to, but my younger son has an 87 average if you take out his music courses. He has B-'s in Latin and a B- in chemistry freshman year, most of his other grades were in B+/A- range. We consider Tufts a reach and U of Rochester a match. Vassar is a reach for my son and he has the advantage of being a boy.</p>

<p>In addition to American which she should definitely look at and which is probably a safety, she should look at George Washington. My son loved American and hated GW, but I know plenty of kids who feel just the opposite. She might want to look at Syracuse too. (It’s big, but he liked that better than too small.) That was going to be my son’s second safety, but he lucked out and got into Chicago EA and dropped it. You might want to look at Chicago - they seem to be more willing than most schools to overlook a bumpy GPA. I think in my son’s case his super high verbal SAT and his essays and recommendations must have gotten him in.</p>

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<p>Some schools mentioned above also occurred to me: American U, and Vassar. </p>

<p>WUSTL is also a school to consider as a reach. Large Jewish population, great Poli Sci department, in a city, relatively small greek system.</p>

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<p>The OP’s daughter doesn’t need a dozen match/safeties, just a few. I think Pitzer, Rochester, Macalaster, American and GWU may fit the bill. Pitt, too.</p>

<p>If she needs more to check out, how about Boston University, Tulane, Rhodes (no idea about Hillel there, but Memphis definitely has a Jewish community, and California would be a nice diversity factor there)? Or Sarah Lawrence? Fordham?</p>

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<p>D went to one of the best/most well known magnet school’s in the country, she’s now at Rochester. She had a 3.4 GPA and a 32 ACT. She is very happy at Rochester and challenged but not overwhelmed. We considered Rochester a match for her. She was not accepted at any of her reach schools including an Ivy that she went to for summer college and earned a 4.129. Some people (admissions officers including IMO) just don’t understand how hard magnet schools work their students and how well prepared their students are for college. I think Rochester takes a slightly different approach (holistic) to admissions.</p>

<p>One of her best friends is at Macalaster. I think American and GWU are great suggestions too</p>

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<p>I agree with JHS, and I would emphasize Tulane, but just because I know most about it. It is about 27% Jewish (Hillel very active), has an excellent Honors Program (she probably wouldn’t get invited to start because of GPA, but she can earn her way in and can take the honors course sections freshman year anyway with only a couple of exceptions), is in an active city where the residents love Tulane students, etc. etc. You may not believe me when I tell you it is no more a party school than others similar in nature, and less than most state schools, but it is true. Because of warm weather and diversity of students, non-drinkers have no problem finding like-minded friends and having lots of fun. Especially since she would be immediately focused on Jewish community involvement, this should not be a big issue for her. Greek life is average, about 30%. Non-Greeks pretty much all say not being Greek is not an issue at all. Her high test scores will help her, partial merit scholarship a possibility. Gorgeous campus in very upscale part of the city.</p>

<p>OK, I am done selling. Worth a look for you I think.</p>

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<p>I think WUSTL would be a great choice, though it’s a reach GPA-wise.</p>

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<p>SlitheyTove,
S2 was around 25% at a selective admit IB. Wanted some Jewish presence and is a polisci/IR guy, too. Schools he considered that would be safe/matchy for your D – Macalester, URoch, American, Boston U, GWU, Pitt, UMD-CP (very large and diverse Jewish presence). </p>

<p>I’d try to get your hands on your HS’s school profile and see if they accurately portray how tough the program actually is, so that colleges have a way to weigh her GPA in context. If the GC asks parents for info on your D to write the LOR, you are then prepared to talk about her willingness to challenge herself, etc.</p>

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<p>Amazing, all of you are far more encouraged than she (or I!) are about her chances at schools already on her radar, which should buck her up. Thank you all so much for that! She chose to change schools in 9th grade from a well-regarded magnet where she was the academic wunderkid breezing through to her current school where she is just one in the (small) crowd, and sweating for that. Overall, it’s been the right choice, but she and we always knew that it might well affect her chances at college application time. It’s ironic that her GPA and test scores may peg her as a smart slacker, when if she’d stayed at her previous school her GPA would’ve been higher and yet masked that she was slacking. </p>

<p>Schools that a number of people mentioned:</p>

<p>AU is very much on her list. Her GC suggested it, and from her school it is regarded as a safety. She wants to sit in on classes to evaluate rigor. My concern is that it’s an excellent choice if she keeps her current interests, but if she changes fields, my (erroneous?) perception is that the academic depth isn’t as great. </p>

<p>GWU: Didn’t know where to place her chances, but I want her to visit since she’s interested in AU anyway. More academic breadth than for AU, but she may not like the lack of campus. On the other hand, generous National Merit money.</p>

<p>U of Chicago: Ever since her tour of Reed and reactions to the campus, I’ve been mentioning U of C, but she says she doesn’t want that much rigor. She does love their mailings, which are the only ones she reads. She’s willing to apply to some reaches, but doesn’t relish the idea of writing a ton of essays for many many reach schools.</p>

<p>Clark: She toured, initially really liked it, but then on reflection felt she liked other schools better. Close family friends have a child there, and they don’t see it as a good fit for D1…and D1 knows this. Worth reconsidering as well, but her perceptions are probably set on this one.</p>

<p>WUStL: I think she’d like this as well, but she’s uninterested because she perceives it as a moneyed student body :rolleyes:. Since it’s a reach, not a fight worth taking on.</p>

<p>Tulane: A lot of kids at her school apply because of the free and easy app. The party reputation is indeed a turnoff, so we will have to dig deeper to see if she can find her tribe.</p>

<p>BU: Many years ago this was the school she mentioned, and I have no idea why since we’ve never visited. Worth poking at again.</p>

<p>Lots of suggestions for other schools where she and I will need to do some homework. Bard (love that EA!), Goucher, Lewis and Clark (her GC has mentioned, not sure if Jewish community is significant enough), Skidmore, Rhodes, Sarah Lawrence, Fordham, Syracuse, UMCP, Vassar (seems reachy, but that library, OMG), Oberlin (she thinks it’s too rural), Conn College, Emory (seems reachy and greek). </p>

<p>'rentof2: D1 did look at the Honors college at U of O, but it appears that entry is very competitive and heavily based on GPA. I wouldn’t think she would make the cut, but maybe I should dig into that a little more.</p>

<p>sarsfield: CMC? At this rate, she will be touring 80% of the 5Cs. :slight_smile: Scripps is apparently an acceptable women’s school because of the consortium. Yet Bryn Mawr/Haverford isn’t. The mysteries of the teenaged mind… :)</p>

<p>meezermom: D1 is really becoming enamored with Rochester. We’ll have her visit at the end of the summer and interview. I get the same feeling about their admissions being holistic. The generous National Merit money doesn’t hurt, either. :)</p>

<p>Countingdown: I’ve seen the school’s profile, and it really could use some work. The school admin staff just suffered some cuts, so they’re going to be even less enthused about my suggestions that they need to change the profile. I’d especially like to see them add a section which lists the distribution of letter grades in each course, so they can see that yes, there are a lot of C’s in APUSH. Since parent volunteers can’t touch student records, I don’t know how to make them feel that this is an effort worth making. An ongoing campaign. My next step is going to involve my folder full of examples from other schools. </p>

<p>happymomof1: She did indeed look at Swarthmore, and was terrified when the info session adcom mentioned that classes can be as small as two people. I told her that might be an exception, but no, she’s not interested. It would be an insane reach regardless.</p>

<p>garland: She was interested in Wesleyan, but regards that as quite a reach. Maybe worth putting back on her radar. She will be taking the SAT in March since she’ll need one sitting for National Merit; here’s to hoping she is one and done on that. She prefers the ACT, but was unprepared for its sheer length. Her subscores reflect that. She feels she can get a 34, and if nothing else will be able to push on the later sections and bump up her superscored subscores.</p>

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<p>S1 really liked URoch and they have a good polisci dept. – if at all possible, make a visit and do an interview. They like the respect. With her standardized test scores, she should have an excellent shot. FYI, they recently created an IR department which is basically an offshoot from polisci (which itself is very well-regarded). BU has a large (1,000 student) IR department; some friends at our synagogue have a D who went there and did a semester in Geneva. They rave about the school. </p>

<p>We had the same concerns about low GPA in a selective program vs. a higher GPA where S wouldn’t be sweating, and so far, it has worked out well. (S2 has a 3.49 UW on the transcript which includes a bunch of Bs from HS classes taken in MS, and a 3.56 UW for 9-11). I think the key is to choose the schools wisely. S did apply to Swat, but we know from Naviance that it is his big long shot. He also got into UChicago EA and UMD Priority (apply by 11/1 or the odds get very long). </p>

<p>Our rabbi went to Clark undergrad, if that says anything!</p>

<p>Macalester and URoch accepted in the low 40s last year; Pitt, BU and AU in the low 50s. S2 did not care for Brandeis, either, which kind of surprised me, as I figured that might be right up his alley. He also concluded that he wanted small/mid-size schools.</p>

<p>Maybe the school would let you play around with the school profile as long as they fill in the grades/scores!</p>

<p>Your D’s recs and essays will be a big factor here. Find people who will sing about your D, in class or outside. We worried that S2 would be viewed as a slacker with the high SAT and middling GPA, but he busted his tail (and frankly, burned himself out) writing some terrific essays on top of full IB, Extended Essay and football season.</p>

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<p>USC and NYU are obvious omissions here. If SAT resembles PSAT might also recommend a try for Barnard. </p>

<p>Bard is very rural, and it is NOT that easy to get to NYC, no matter what anyone else tells you.</p>

<p>We loved Bard but you have to love rural.</p>

<p>Would second the person who mentioned Fordham. Check out Lincoln Center Campus. Don’t know if there is a poli-sci program there. I think there’d be NMF money.</p>

<p>I agree with the poster suggesting Tulane. Merit money there, too.</p>