<p>My kid is talking to coaches and has sent transcript and SAT scores. WGPA is 4.13, UWGPA 3.83. SAT is 1950 with 720 math, 650 writing, 580 CR. 2 subject tests with 730 each.</p>
<p>So the AI is 218 using Tier One format. I keep reading on CC that you must have 700 on every section of the SAT, but is that true if your subject tests and GPA compensate?</p>
<p>We have been told by other recruits that you MUST have at least one of the SAT scores above a 700 (a rule). Kid is good on that. The coaches are aware of the scores and no one has said there is a problem. 218 seems to be at a recruitable level, but I wonder about the 580 in critical reading. Is there a floor to a particular section, even if the others balance everything out and GPA is good? Kid's transcript shows 4 APs and 3 Honor classes through junior year. More to come in senior year.</p>
<p>Kid has competitions every weekend and will not be able to take the SAT again this Spring. Will that 580 in CR stop everything in a pre-read? Besides shooting for 210+ on the Academic Index, are there other rules or cutoffs?</p>
<p>Terrafin - the only real floor is that 176 minimum. Your son obviously has that covered. The ‘700 per section’ rule that’s thrown around is not hard and fast - rather a good benchmark to be pretty safe academically. Will that 580 be an issue going forward? No way any of us can answer that with certainty. - As fenway said, it will depend on the scores of the rest of the kids in the recruiting pool and your sons desirability as an athlete relative to those kids. </p>
<p>All the above answers are true. The kids that get in on the floor of the AI are STARS in their sport that could have had full athletic scholarships at non-Ivy d1 schools. The further your kid’s athletic play deviates from - seriously - national level of play the higher their AI needs to be. </p>
<p>I don’t get why someone with a 218 AI would be worried at all. My son’s is around 208 and the coach has given him no worries about academics, just keep it the same. </p>
<p>From the Tier One site:
“Over 210
This is really where you want to be. With an AI over 210, I think it’s pretty unlikely that academics will be a deal killer in your athletic recruiting.”</p>
<p>The question is, does your son (who assumedly is a junior) have any kind of read by the coaches about his place on the recruitment list? His AI should be high enough, even if he doesn’t retake the SAT (my son is missing a competition to take the SAT in June after AP exams). Your son’s AI is high enough that I would be worried that he was recruited to balance out kids with lower AIs, and your son would be on the bench. If he is really great athletically, I see no worries but get some kind of idea from coaches ASAP.</p>
<p>My son’s top Ivy choice just got a verbal from a 2015, luckily not my son’s position, so he is going to broach the subject at the next prospect camp. He’s gotten previous praise by coaches who know his name, and has done well at prospect camps, but he is shy to “do the talk” with the coaches. But that is very necessary for a junior, especially at D1 schools.</p>
<p>thanks for all the comments. I know you guys have been down this road before - and so have I with kid1. My question is not about how low of an Academic Index you can get by with. It is a question about absolute floors within the components of the AI.
For example - is there an absolute acceptable floor to an athlete’s GPA regardless of their test scores. If they got a 2400 on the SAT and 800s on 2 subject tests could they presumably have a 3.0 - which would give them an AI of 223? Or do you think the 3.0 in and of itself would not pass a pre-read? A 223 is great, but then there is that one component (GPA) that is really low.</p>
<h1>rhandco my concern is that with a 580 Critical Reading score, admissions may think my kid can’t read and comprehend well enough to succeed - regardless of how high the GPA and other scores are.</h1>
<p>Did he take Honors or AP English and do well? If he did, I don’t think they will be worried. </p>
<p>As a junior, he should be getting some kind of pre-read - interest level in him as an athlete, and interest level in him as an applicant. Once the first is confirmed, and the school is one of his top choices, he needs to get a pre-read. He could take the SAT in fall of senior year and try to do better <em>if</em> that is the one sticking point.</p>
<p>My son is in a bit of limbo with interested coaches but not sitting down to talk dollars to donuts yet. In my case, if my kid doesn’t apply ED to his top choice with the support of their coach, it’s down to the regular acceptance rates which are much more difficult even with the AI needed.</p>
<p>Yes, maybe Harvard will snub your kid, but there are 7 others, or 5 others if you assume Yale and Princeton gotta make believe they care too about a handful of points on one day vs. GPA.</p>
<p>The only way to be sure is to flat out ask an admissions officer. The coach can send his materials on once he submits his complete ED application. But you could ask the coach at his top choice to ask the one pointed question to admissions on his behalf. But I do think the coach is more likely to refer you to a contact in admissions.</p>
<p>So I would suggest pare down the schools to a few, and push him to contact the coaches. If he is in a timed sport, send them times. If he is in a team sport, go to prospect camps. Either way he needs to start the conversation. The GPA, test scores, and AI are part of the picture, but Ivy coaches are getting commitments from 2015 (and even some 2016) players now, so now’s the time to act.</p>
<p>Depending on the sport,my sense is that 580 CR is going to present a real challenge, certainly at HYP. I would encourage you to put the question quite directly to the coach – what has been your experience gaining admissions for recruits with this profile, including a sub 600 score on one of the two core SAT I areas (no one really knows how seriously they take the writing portion, although it is factored into the AI)? The coach may very well be looking at 580 CR as a good starting point and is assuming that next go round it will rise to 650+. If instead 580 CR is the ending point, coach should know that and advise you accordingly. Good luck. </p>
<p>Are you shooting for Ivys, NESCAC, D3 or what? The answer to your question about the 580CR score depends highly upon what schools are being considered.</p>
<p>Kid is looking at Ivies only. I know there are those who will say cast a wider net, but for several very specific reasons we will shoot for Ivies and barring that, hope for state flagship. It has to do with the recruiting for kids sport. </p>
<p>Kid is certainly “in the mix” with athletics and no coaches have said -“this test score is a problem”. And maybe re-taking the SAT can wait until October, but then we are into OVs and commitments (I did go through this with kid 1). Kid may try the ACT this June 14. Realistically though, with competitions every weekend and school not out until June 13th, there is little time to prepare.</p>
<p>We were quoted 600 on each section as a soft minimum. Scores below that are reserved for special cases. If I were in your situation I would find a way to do June 7 SAT to get CR over 600. For the peace of mind, especially if you aim at HYP. However if all these coaches that actively recruit him been at their institutions for a number of years and none of them recommended to retake SAT then maybe it is a non-issue. </p>
<p>If you are shooting for Ivy then I’m afraid a CR score of 580 will raise eyebrows at admissions. The Ivy athletes have to be within one standard deviation of the school mean for AI. </p>
<p>Your son fits the AI criteria but admissions will surely seize upon this. Consider that the 25th percentile of CR scores at Harvard of 690. Your son will be like in the 5th percentile if accepted at Harvard. This would be highly unusual unless your kid is a franchise player and Olympic level athlete. </p>
<p>Why not just retake in June and focus entirely on the CR section ?</p>
<p>If your son is a desirable athlete, the coaches will remain very interested until Admissions says no or the coaches y run out of equity with Admissions. If the pre-read is positive, I still think there is some risk. If you read this site, you’ve read first hand stories. I personally know people “left at the alter” with Ivys and other high academic schools. It gets rough when you have low admissions rates. .A 580 is going to be marginal at an Ivy unless there are other hooks. Son was sitting at 2000 and strongly encouraged by Harvard to re-take SAT which he did and scored above their 2100 target score. He selected another Ivy. I think all Ivy coaches are trying to get every last SAT score up to help the overall recruiting class and give themselves more equity with Admissions. No doubt there is some horse trading going on. Sometimes it is tough to tell what they are telling you, so casting a wide net is always the best thing to do to protect yourself.</p>
<p>fenwaysouth - I’ve heard the 2100 number tossed around for Harvard and other Ivies. But I’ve heard (from coaches/AD mouth) that the target is lower (as low as 1700). My interpretation is that the low number is for the blue chip athletes. What do u think the real target is for a kid in a helmet sport? </p>
<p>PSM2013 - I think the target number is 1900 for helmet (I like to call them “revenue sports”) sports but allowances are made for a few athletes every year @ 1800. As I stated earlier it depends on the school, and the sport. The sport is significant due to the numbers they will allow (football has 80-100 on the roster) so their slot numbers will be greater. In addition, I think some schools have an “AD preference” toward certain sports and allow great flexibility to certain sports. For example I think Harvard puts greater emphasis on their football and basketball programs while Cornell may put more emphasis on LAX and Hockey. I think the Ivy ADs have some institutional latitude to make their numbers work to be in compliance with Ivy standards. Of course there are outliers with the Cornell 2009 Sweet 16 basketball team and the Yale 2013 NCAA champ hockey team, but I think you get my point. JMO and obervation over the last 4+ years.</p>
<p>My son played Ivy baseball and his girlfriend played Ivy soccer. We discussed the recrutiing guidelines and recruiting slots for each sport at a recent Holiday dinner. Not much had changed in their 4 years. Each sport was allowed 1-2 slots around 1800 but it had to be an absolute difference maker. In some cases the athlete was a difference maker and other cases they were not…but that is on the coach.</p>
<p>I would seek to find out where the coach sees your son’s talent relative to his athletic position and the academic bands. Those are the two factors that will have the greatest impact on his Ivy recruitability. Good luck.</p>
<p>PS…I think additional pressure is put upon athletes that have great athletic stats and academic numbers, but the coach tries to squeeze every last bit to make the overall teams number even better. So, even for kids with great numbers the Coach is still trying to get more. These coaches have a tough job, and they really are at the mercy of the Admissions Committee. </p>
<p>Thanks for the info. I have a year or so to go for my child but I’ve heard conflicting info and was just curious how the theory played out in real life. I love all the info on this board! </p>
<p>Coming back to this thread…keep in mind that AI flexibility can be used for you and against you. There are many thousands of potential recruits that get looked at every spring/summer/fall in my son’s sport (baseball). Anything your son or daughter can do to separate themselves (catching the coaches eye and having the stats to back it up)from the pack can genuinely help with recruitment and admissions. There are very few slam dunks. If I was in your shoes, I would take the SAT again to improve the writing score or take it so there is no writing score (new SAT coming with no writing section). JMO. Good luck.</p>
<p>My son’s schools Naviance has Yale acceptances, rejections, and deferrals, and student assumedly an athlete got accepted with a 3.0 GPA and 1800 SAT. It is not unheard of to accept lower scores.</p>
<p>Also he has friends who wanted to play soccer in college, but were good at other sports and ended up getting recruited for the other sport (track and wrestling are two cases I know of).</p>