Flexible on GPA?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
1

<p>Hi. This isn't the most interesting topic, but I'll be very thankful for any advice, and it's not quite a straight-out "chances" post, though it comes pretty close. If you're sick of them, stay away.</p>

<p>I'm going into my senior year in high school, and I'm falling in love with Swarthmore for a lot of the same reasons as everyone else on here. The thing is, my GPA is pretty low compared to what seems to be standard. I'm absolutely responsible for that, and I know that the same excuses I'm about to give apply to a ton of other kids, but I do think that I'm better as a student than my GPA indicates. So, I'm wondering both how flexible Swarthmore is likely to be about the GPA, and how I can point out the positives in interviews/on the application. I'm particularly worried that the combination of good test scores and lower grades will give the impression that I'm naturally smart but don't want to work in school- not a good match for swarthmore.</p>

<p>Here's the situation- My GPA works out to about a 3.55 (I think- my school gives GPA on a 1-11 scale, and I've found a few conflicting rules for conversions. Anyway, between a B+ and an A-, closer to the A-.) Not awful, but not the top-of-the-line type number most Swarthmore applicants have. On the other hand, I go to a very difficult prep school (something I'm not exactly proud of, and one reason Swarthmore seems so attractive.) I've taken well over the required number of classes all through high school, including all the honors and AP options. I have a 2320 SAT, and 5s on all 4 APs that I've taken, plus mid-to-high 700's SAT 2's. I don't have any extracurriculars good enough to really help me, but I've put a lot of time into things outside classes, including some really exhausting sports that if nothing else make it hard to stay up working late at night. I think I'll have pretty good essays/reccomendations. Finally, my grades are mostly dragged down by math and modern language classes. In the things more like what I'm planning to do in college, like history and English, I'm much better.</p>

<p>I don't want to come across like I'm feeling sorry for myself- I know a lot of people would switch places with me, and I'll get into a school where I can be happy. Everyone applying to top schools has a lot of positives, though. I've just found myself with my heart set on Swarthmore, and I don't know if my GPA makes it a long shot. Would ED help?</p>

<p>I'm impressed if you've read all the way through this massive post. Thanks so much for any help.</p>

2

<p>ED helps, but in your case ED II might be a better option, as it will give you a chance to get good grades in your first semester senior year.</p>

<p>If you rank in top 10% of your class, it will put your GPA in better perspective. In some schools getting As is much harder then in others. Sports might help as well, especially if you are planning to continue with them in college.</p>

<p>Having high SAT and AP scores won't hurt you :).</p>

3

<p>Thanks for the quick reply. My school doesn't report class rank, either to us or to colleges, so I'm not really sure. I've been sort of informally told that I'm in the second set of ten- somewhere between 10% and 20%. On the other hand, Harvard, Yale and Princeton alone usually account for about 10% of the graduating class every year. There aren't many schools where I'd be the best student, but I think there are plenty where I'd be a lot higher up.</p>

<p>Any opinions from anyone else on ED1 vs ED2? I know it may take a while- this probably isn't the time of year when the most people will be reading these boards.</p>

4

<p>This is anecdotal experience only, don't count it as official word of anything and take it with a huge sprinkling of salt. My son's classmate graduated from Hotchkiss school. His GPA was like yours. He had good SAT scores. I don't know his ranking in school. But he is a Swarthmore student now.</p>

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<p>The reason I say take it with a grain of salt is, not because I'm lying about anything but because I don't know the entire story. I just know the kid, since he is one of my son's closest friends at Swat and they have also been roommates for 2 years....</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
I've been sort of informally told that I'm in the second set of ten- somewhere between 10% and 20%. On the other hand, Harvard, Yale and Princeton alone usually account for about 10% of the graduating class every year.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, you've kind of answered your own question! The best data comes from the high school's history. From what you describe, your GPA probably wouldn't blow you out of the water at Swarthmore. On the other hand, it isn't going to knock them dead, either. Welcome to the big group of applicants who are neither auto-admits nor auto-rejects!</p>

<p>I will say that I believe Swarthmore does place considerable emphasis on high school transcripts.</p>

7

<p>"Welcome to the big group of applicants who are neither auto-admits nor auto-rejects!"</p>

<p>Thanks, that's sort of what I was expecting. As long as it's not unreasonable, I'm willing to take my chances. </p>

<p>Regarding Swarthmore's emphasis on transcripts- I think that my courseload has been one of the heaviest at my high school, but that's not an obvious number like a GPA. How much do you think that matters, and how aware are colleges of the strength of your schedule, vs. what's standard at the school? How do they find out? Counsellor reccomendation letters? I know you can't know exactly how admissions departments work, but from the posts of yours I've read you seem really knowledgeable about this kind of thing.</p>

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<p>I worked in admissions. I can tell you they REALLY pay attention to GPA in the CONTEXT of your school. If what you are saying is true, this info. will come across in the school's profile, which your GC will have to mail to Swat. The school's profile tells how many students there are, how many take AP classes, how many AP classes are offered, how many students go onto 4 year colleges, etc., etc., etc. It really helps admissions understand what your GPA means. Also, your class rank really shows that your school doesn't hand out As easily. In my school, you could have a 3.9UW and still not be in top ten %. </p>

<p>Anyway, best of luck. The most you can do is write killer essays and apply early.</p>

9

<p>Hi JP,
My son will be a senior at Swat and I remember that his high school's profile actually had a "check off' where the college counselor could indicate whether a student had taken the most rigorous courseload available, and so forth down the line. If you're at a difficult prep school, they may very well have something similar. What type of sports have occupied your time and would you consider continuing any of them on the college level? What particularly has attracted you to Swarthmore at this point?</p>

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<p>Banana- thanks, that makes me feel a lot better. </p>

<p>momof3sons- varsity cross country in the fall, varsity crew (rowing) in the spring, plus an assortment of random sports at a lower level thrown in during the winter. Cross Country I might continue in college, I haven't really decided. Crew I would love to continue, though only at a DIII or club level, but Swarthmore unfortunately doesn't have a team. I guess that's consolation if I end up going elsewhere.</p>

<p>Reasons for liking Swarthmore? Small, intense classes with professors who really care and are willing to challenge you with the most difficult material. I want to do work that's interesting and that I'm proud of, and to be surrounded by an environment that keeps encouraging me to do better. In big lectures at a university, I think I would probably end up rarely saying anything in class, but I wouldn't have as much fun that way. I have no idea what I want to major in, so I like the idea of a broad, liberal arts education- with the possibility of the honors program if I find one subject that I really love above all others.</p>

<p>The "do-gooder" spirit- I admit that I'm a naive, save-the-world idealist. Even if I'm not actually going to save the world, I want a college that values and encourages that ideal.</p>

<p>The people- I want a smart, eclectic group of classmates. I want them to have strong, interesting, and well-thought-out opinions that I don't always agree with. I want them to be kind, friendly people, who know how to enjoy themselves while they are working hard. I want a needs-blind school, with a much more interesting group of people than at the colleges which mostly include the people who can afford to be there, rather than the people who most deserve to be. I want to argue with them about obscure, pedantic philosophical issues at 4 am.</p>

<p>The culture- for some reason, every Swarthmore tradition I hear about just cracks me up. Little things. One example- screaming at "plastics" in "The Graduate" appeals to me so much- and the friends I've repeated it to really don't get it. Also, I love the idea of a campus where every event is essentially free once you're there, no worrying about either not being able to afford an event, or the awkwardness of wanting to go with a friend who you aren't sure can afford it. I know you're paying for everything with the tuition anyway, it's just so much simpler. The whole good-natured depression, misery poker thing- well, I've done that before, and it would be nice not to be the only one.</p>

<p>Finally, I saw the amphitheatre on a tour, and I really want to graduate there.</p>

<p>So, is that enough reasons? I guess I just like writing about it right now. Lots of liberal arts colleges meet most of these criteria, and maybe by the time I apply I'll prefer another school. I'm prone to making bad decisions and changing my mind on subjects like this. Right now, when I imagine myself in college, it's always Swarthmore. I'm fine with maybe not getting in. I'll be dissapointed if I end up getting rejected, but I can handle that. I'm just glad to know that it's possible. All my questions have really been answered for the moment.</p>

11

<p>JP,
If you decide to apply to Swat in the fall, make sure to contact the cross country coach if you think you might want to run in college. As for the rest of your answer to my general question, welcome to Swat! ;)</p>

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<p>And jp has basically written his swat application. it does look compelling to me.</p>

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<p>sounds like you did a lot of research. if you keep on conveying your desire to go to Swat in this manner, I think you definitely have a good shot.</p>

<p>GPA isn't everything (what about rank?)</p>

14

<p>Swarthmore's cross country coach is Pete Carroll. He is very well liked and highly regarded. I would definitely contact him, especially if you are thinking you might continue running x-country in college.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
Small, intense classes with professors who really care and are willing to challenge you with the most difficult material. I want to do work that's interesting and that I'm proud of, and to be surrounded by an environment that keeps encouraging me to do better. In big lectures at a university, I think I would probably end up rarely saying anything in class, but I wouldn't have as much fun that way. I have no idea what I want to major in, so I like the idea of a broad, liberal arts education- with the possibility of the honors program if I find one subject that I really love above all others.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Almost my exact reasons for applying :)</p>

<p>Sorry that this isn't helpful.</p>

16

<p>Check with your guidance counselor. Many rigorous preps will report an "average GPA" for your class as a means of comparing your grades to your peers but they will not give a class rank</p>

<p>For example, at my son's prep, the average GPA is a 3.1 and the highest is about a 3.6-3.7. This information is all included on the school profile that is included with the transcript. In that light a 3.5 would look pretty darn good, dont you think?</p>

17

<p>Wow...you're basically like I was. I had about a 3.4 UW, 3.9 W, 2320, mid 700 sat2s, 9 APs (all 4s and 5s). My school is also very competitive though. I applied ED, had a great first semester (I was deferred), kept in contact with my admissions officer (who was very helpful) and got in regular.</p>