Florida In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants

Parents Forum
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<p>Well, FunAndSun…in Florida we’re talking about 1.300 kids, and that would be spread across 12 public universities and dozens of CC’s. In total it’s about 50 million dollars (or less) in expense. If they ever get approved for State or Federal Aid, then the cost will explodes.</p>

<p>Here is an interesting scenario:</p>

<p>Lets say 100 undocumented immigrants get accepted to UF through it’s holistic admissions (UF enrolls 6.400+ freshmen a year). That means 100 in-state students got bumped out. Since UF uses holistic admissions, they could have bumped legal citizens due to “diversity”, first time in college, SES diversity, etc., and not academics (GPA/course rigor/Test scores). It will be very easy to find high stat kids that got bumped for lower stat undocumented immigrants.</p>

<p>I really hope Florida doesn’t “advertise” the number of undocumented kids that get accepted to UF, as that would create a bunch of un-happy campers. :wink: </p>

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<p>Getting non emergency services is difficult for anyone without insurance or even with some insurances, particularly Medicaid. Yes, due to EMTALA, hospitals, doctors, medical centers must treat anyone with a life threatening situation, but when it comes to discretionary tests,that term can cut a wide swaths. Your DD may well have gotten the MRI whether you could pay or not if it was absolutely necessary, but otherwise, your ability to pay may have made the difference. </p>

<p>My son cut his hand badly. With or without insurance, medicaid, whatever, he would have gotten the emergency treatment. He did not cut anything essential, but had he, that’s where paths diverge between the haves and the have nots You are not likely to find a hand surgeon on Medicaid or with no insurance. I am paying for my son to non Medicaid insurance coverage because finding non emergency medical care with Medicaid is not so easy. Many doctors or treatment centers, hospitals flat out won’t accept patients with no insurance, or with Medicaid or certain other insurances. </p>

<p>I have no idea how many illegal students will be getting state tuition in Florida due to the new policies or how many are nationwide as many schools are coming up with in state tuition for those kids if they have completed high school in state and can meet some other standards, sometimes being illegal one of them A lot of the kids of illegals here in my area are citizens as they are born here in the US; it’s their parents who are not How that used to be treated under state residency rules, I don’t know,as it 's the parents residency that determine’s the dependent kid’s… Such kids also are entitled to fill out FAFSA and get federal benefits, and many schools will give aid and awards to them as well. College have not screened for immigration legality of parents. That many are not paying or underpaying taxes means a number of them are getting undeserved aid. How bad the problem is, again I don’t know. </p>

<p>I would not shut down health care options as they now stand, but, I don’t support giving illegal kids in state tutition rates. They are internationals students, and have to apply as such and pay as such just like so many internationals who would so love to get the benefits in this country but whose parents are not illegally here. </p>

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<p>Right or wrong, the only reason the in-state tuition for undocumented immigrants was approved was because Florida governor Scott needs Hispanic votes when he runs for reelection this fall…the Republican controlled Florida legislature is just trying to help the unpopular governor get reelected. .14% of Florida voters are Hispanic. In 2011 Scott stated he strongly opposed in-state tuition for undocumented immigrants…he did a full flip flop.</p>

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<p>As I stated earlier, a lot of our policies towards illegal immigrants have been driven for reasons that are not humanitarian or moral or because of the good it does for all of us. There are other motives afoot. It’s profitable for a lot of companies and people to have a large illegal work pool in this country.</p>

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<p>As someone already mentioned, CA gives in-state tuition and state aid to illegal immigrants. I don’t know if any statistics are kept on how many of them take advantage of it, and I have wondered what these students do for a living after they graduate. Does anyone know?</p>

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<p>Doesn’t matter. This person was admitted into the bar and is legally allowed to practice law in California.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/02/justice/california-immigrant-lawyer/”>Undocumented immigrant can practice law in California, court rules - CNN;

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<p>As I wrote upthread, some of them cannot find jobs, some marry citizens and get their paper work, some buy the ID they need to work, some work for under the table wages.</p>

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<p>Kim Kardashian aside, intertwining yourself financially w someone else is not a trivial commitment.</p>

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<p>Actually, it is a pretty trivial commitment if neither of you has any money. </p>

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<p>Here in NY, it costs not a trivial amount to buy a spouse for citizenship purposes. Yes, there is a market for this. </p>

<p>However, in most cases, a lot of these kids who are illegally here, integrate into the mainstream and going to college is a great way to do this, and they meet other kids, and yes, marry. Not necessarily to get their citizenship but just in the course of human affairs. To their benefit. Maybe some of it is to get the citizenship, maybe there are some other things happening, they are all over the place in terms of snagging a US spouse to gain legality here in this country. But, I think in a lot, maybe most of the cases in terms of kids going to college,meeting like kids, the marriages are not trivial. This is the way different cultures have integrated from the beginning of time. </p>

<p>So, even though the illegal immigrant using marriage as solution to the issue is something that is happening, when I answered the question about those kids in college, I was not even going there. It’s just what happens just as it would with young people meeting other young people. Perfectly natural. It does solve the problem of illegal status here very nicely as well.</p>

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<p>We should just follow the lead of other countries like Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, Finland, Germany, UK, France, Spain, Mexico, Bolivia, China, Japan…</p>

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<p>I worked with a Japanese immigrant (nurse) who was brought to the US at the age of 2. Her parents, for whatever reason, never bothered to complete the proper paperwork to make her a US citizen. She had no idea that she was here illegally until she received a letter from INS that she had to go back to Japan. Ok, she didn’t speak Japanese, didn’t have family there, and never been to Japan!! She, by no fault of her own, did committed a crime. Fortunately, she was able to quit her job, join the armed forces, serve, and become a citizen. </p>

<p>Up until that time, I had a very skeptical and harsh view of illegal and/or undocumented immigrants. Since then, I have come across many more individuals facing a plight by no fault of there own. At some level, we have to acknowledge that the blanket “illegal” classification is more complex than we believe it to be. We need to step up to the plate and make an ethical correction to these extreme scenarios. Personally, these individuals should go to the front of the naturalization line because they didn’t have any choice in the matter.</p>

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<p>@fluffy,

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<p>… and do what?</p>

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<p>The reason why people come here illegally and stay is because Americans PAY them. Yes. And I’m guilty of this too. I have no doubt that the guy who runs my lawn service has illegal workers that he picks up. He’s a bit better than many as he does seem to have more regulars, unlike a number of the lawn services that are cheaper that have a different crew all of the time A lot of my neighbors have house hold help that are likely illegal and they pay them under the table too. My kids’ school hired a private cleaning company, and though that was all on the up and up, who that company hired to do the actual cleaning…well, they didn’t speak any English. When I saw someone working who looked so young that I felt she was underage, I raised a fuss, and yep, the contract service could not come up wtih papers or anything for most of their crew, and the school let them go. The new contractors were more carefully selected, but the price tripled so no one was thanking me Never found out if that girl was underage or not. She just disappeared. Police could not care less. This is this sort of thing one is often abetting when crossing these lines, by the way. </p>

<p>Because I had to pay legally and didn’t want to do the investiigations myself, I went through a service for years for payroll and help. Found out it was shell. The workers were mostly illegal and got only a portion of what I paid the service–yes, ss and taxes were taken out, but many of the employees had “bought” ids. I was offered their upgraded service where you pay a small amount to this company, pay the employees the rest in cash, and the service provides the paperwork fraudulently as a shell so it appears you are doing it right. That was when I found out the way they truly operated. Many had/have children, some illegally here too, and our schools have to provide a lot of services for them. And yes, if they stay, they get instate tuition at our public colleges if they have three years at a high school here. Those born here are US citizens even with illegal parents and they can get federal financial aid, though I don’t know about the state grants If they aren’ tpaying taxes and have no documentation, they are often treated very gingerly and given a pass. The US citizen who isn’t filing the return on time, well, no aid until it’s done Again if I want to bring a relative over here and have her go to the local school , $20K has to be paid, while the illegal kids are all going for free. </p>

<p>An acquaintance is a slum lord for many of them. Makes good money from them as they don’t want to make waves. I don’t blame the illegal immigrants at all. Many are here because this is the absolute best option hands down for them and their families. I blame the Americans who make it so, because it leads to this underbelly of life and also hurts others. It hurts legitimate businesses trying to pay a living age, a legal wage. TRy opening a small restaurant or nail salon or other such thing in my area and compete with those who have under the table illegal staff. It’s very difficult. </p>

<p>One of the humanitarian reasons we give for letting the situation go is that if we crack down, the illegal immigrants would hide all the more, avoiding medical services for fear of getting caught and deported. Hide the kids in the cellars and attics instead of sending them to school, again for the same fear. and we have even a worse problem. So we give them safe haves which are band aids to the problem. But it’s not for humanitarian reasons, this group is being supported. American make money off of them. Slumlords make very good money from them Don’t need to keep up the place, they pay a premium as they pack a lot of people in there, they don’t complain, they work for cash far less than the min wage and no paper work. Heck, when my MIL had damages from a storm in her yard., for fifty bucks a head, I could have hired a crew of likely illegals to clean things up. Paid 10 times the amount to a guy who probably hired the same illegals through his system and pocketed the difference. </p>

<p>I do insist on ID and papers and registrations, ins etc for some who work on the house here. And I pay a premium doing so, But to vet every single person who works for a contractor I hire who is on the surface on the up and up, is more than I’m willing to do. I pay more for the little I do NOT to contribute to this sad state of affairs. </p>

<p>I live in the midst of all of this so I can go on for hours about my personal observation of this. The way we are handling this IS NOT RIGHT. It’s insane. it encourages illegal operations, it encourages id theft, it encourages the very thing we have agencies trying to prevent. </p>

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<p>Frugaldoctor, another aspect of this insanity shows up when some paper agency notices someone is illegally here and goes after the person when it’s as clear as can be that it’s not a huge deal, that can be cleared up. Yet, these same agencies are not permitted to stop the large groups just milling around looking for work"johns" to pick up for a days work. I can show your right down the street a mile or two from me such a site. Many of them in my area. Those, get a blind eye. It’s the same thing when Protective services gets a buzz about some alleged abuse in a situation safe for them, and they go after it doggedly, when it clearly likely just one of those things, when blatant abuses are right out there in some areas of my county and NYC, where the poverty, living conditions. neglect by necessity are blatant. You can just drive by and see that a lot of these kids are not getting a decent life. So you go after the dad who cuffed his kid one and the kid told the teacher instead. Very smart. </p>

<p>Forget going after those who are clearly in this country legally and missed a piece of paper or something that can be taken care of administratively. Fine the heck out of them if you want. But don’t have the guns and soldiers, barbwire and a whole border control thing about people crossing, but if they make it through the gauntlet, they are good for the goodies. Of course they are going to take that chance, though the illegals I have known simply got on a plane to tour or visit the US and never left. No crossing any deserts or border checkpoints in the back of the truck. Go to visit Aunt Mi in Minnesota, and make your way to Florida, NY, Tx from there. Not even a thousand bucks expended. If they already have family and contacts here, they know the underground system better than most any of us do. And anyone who is close this happening, including authorities know too. Our village police can’t do a thing, they have to tread lightly as our village/town lost a major lawsuit in this regard, that made no sense at all to me. Basically supporting this illicit human trade.</p>

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The children of the would-be immigrants who have done it right didn’t have any choice in the matter, either. So why let the illegals shove ahead of them in line?</p>

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<p>@TatinG You do realize that the process of becoming a legal resident is a little more complex than simply “hiring an immigration lawyer” to do something about it? I am not sure how many “Dreamers” you know, but I can tell you that I personally know quite a few who day in an day out are always on the lookout for any shred of news, or hope that they may be able to become legal residents. This whole notion that they are “doing nothing about it” could not be farther from the truth. </p>

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<p>Well, I don’t know why they should go to the front of the line because their parents broke the law to get them born here in the first place. That just makes no sense. Why would anyone obey a law that rewards the lawbreakers offspring?</p>

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<p>No, those kids whose parents did move here illegally often have gotten great advantages as opposed to those still trying to get through the legal channels. For many, they do this for their children more for themselves. If the kids and they get no advantages and more grief than opportunities, the is would probably end rather quickly That’ s not what is happening. </p>

<p>I know I sound harsh.But this has come to the point where the law is a total mockery.</p>

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<p>If the kids are born in the USA, they are legal citizens. This only applies to kids born outside of the country. These kid (born in the USA) can help thier parents get green cards (and become legal). </p>