<p>Does anyone know of any good to excellent music schools for flute performance in the eastern US, BUT doesn't have very many (if any) specific requirements (basically getting to pick your own pieces)? (Don't ask)</p>
<p>This is something that you can easily look up yourself by going to the web site of each school you are interested in and doing the reading. Any “good to excellent” school is going to have standardized rep requirements, so I’m afraid that you’re going to have to do what every other auditioning student has to do and prepare as required.</p>
<p>Yes, I could go to each school’s website, but I would get the school’s obviously biased opinion of itself, which wouldn’t tell me whether it’s a truly good school or not. Looking on a website isn’t a proper substitute for finding out good information from real people with real experiences.
And I’m well aware that the majority of the good schools have specific requirements, which is why I asked if there are any schools that anyone knows of that DON’T have those requirements. I asked this question in hopes of an answer, not a snippy response, thanks.</p>
<p>If you are looking for a good to excellent music school for flute WITHOUT specific audition requirements, then the answer is NO. Flute is one of the most competitive performance majors out there and even the middle of the road schools have basic requirements (Mozart, contemporary piece, excerpts)</p>
<p>Unfortunately, you might need to do the legwork on this yourself. Look at the websites of the schools that interest you, and see which meet your needs. Then, if you happen to find a few, come back here and (if any one has experiences at those schools) people will be happy to help you.</p>
<p>Hmmnn, didn’t sound like a “snippy” response to me. And, according to you, we can’t ask you why in heaven’s name can’t you prepare for auditions just like the rest of the hundreds, even thousands of good to excellent flute players out there. So we are left to conclude on our own that it is likely that you are unable or unwilling to play the standard repertory. Mezzo’sMamma is trying to answer your question but you don’t like the answer.</p>
<p>@flute1289, I know that, I mean realllyy specific requirements, like Juilliard specific. I just can’t go for that sort of thing. If it’s general like a Mozart concerto, 21st century piece, Bach sonata, French piece, a few orchestral excerpts, etc, that I can do because that’s still fairly general.
I was asking for specific schools, because there are just so many ones out there, I have asked various people about different schools, but unfortunately it’s been to no avail, which is why I’m resorting to asking on a message board about any schools any person can suggest.</p>
<p>@sopranomom92, unfortunately, this isn’t MY choice here (since I’m not paying for it), otherwise I would gladly go for it. The reason I didn’t put why is because I was under the assumption that people aren’t jumping to hear a long tedious story, plus I’m not too eager to share my personal life/problems on a public message board. The bottom line is that I have a question that needs to be answered. If you make assumptions about me, that’s your own fault.</p>
<p>Hey, Aliceflute, I think there are some misconceptions here. We’re not Google, and we’re not here to do your work for you. What schools have excellent flute programs has been discussed here in great detail. Universities post their requirements on their websites. Figuring out which audition requirements will work for you is your job, not ours, and you can’t expect people on the internet you’re never met to just know what “realllyy specific” means for you. Search the archives and do some googling. Stop acting so entitled here. Good luck!</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/224146-schools-flute-help.html?highlight=good+flute+schools[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/224146-schools-flute-help.html?highlight=good+flute+schools</a></p>
<p>This may help you. Use the search button above and search for other threads. There are many links to discussions about flute schools.</p>
<p>If you are thinking about any schools that require “pre-screenings” (and many do), most are due by mid-november/early December.</p>
<p>Aliceflute , the frustration is with the very general nature of your question and no place for posters to launch since you have not provided a starting list. There are numerous schools in the east and what is “good to excellent” is largely dependent on the teacher that is best for you. The starting list is best worked with your own teacher. </p>
<p>If you are looking for less restrictive audition lists, are you referring to things like this from SUNY Purchase?. </p>
<p>Woodwinds (flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon)</p>
<p>Pre-screening audition: please submit two selections in contrasting styles from the list below. Live audition: please prepare all pieces and movements outlined below.
•Two contrasting movements from a major concerto in the standard repertoire.
•Two contrasting etudes showing the applicants level of technical and lyrical abilities
•Two excerpts from the orchestral repertoire.</p>
<p>As opposed to this from New England Conservatory (NEC)?
Prescreening Recordings (all programs except AD):
1.Mozart - Exposition of 1st and 2nd movements of the Concerto in G or D Major.
2.Contrasting piece of the candidate’s choice.
3.Orchestral Excerpts (3 total):</p>
<p>A. Beethoven Leonore Overture No.3 - measures 328-360.
B. Brahms Symphony No.4, last movement - measures 93-105.
C. Mendelssohn Scherzo from Midsummer Nights Dream - 2 measures before P to the end.</p>
<p>Undergraduate Auditions:
1.One Etude.
2.Mozart Concerto in G or D Major - movements 1 and 2.
3.Major contemporary work (complete sonata, concerto, or substantial work such as Dutilleux Sonatine, Jolivet Chant de Linos, Martin Ballade, or Sancan Sonatine).
4.Three Orchestral Excerpts displaying a variety of styles.</p>
<p>From my VERY brief look, and I am not particularly familiar with flute, it appears as if the conservatories such as NEC, Julliard, Eastman have very similar requirements and may be more restrictive than some universities. If that is the case, you may want to focus your search on universities. </p>
<p>A list to start with can be found perhaps on the past year’s list of acceptances to see where others have gone.</p>
<p>Aliceflute: What about the Jacobs School at the University of Indiana?</p>
<p>“Applicants should prepare all movements of a C. P. E. Bach sonata, a J.S. Bach sonata, or a Mozart concerto, and one work in a contrasting style.”</p>
<p>That seems pretty flexible to me. In general, the schools in the northeast have more rigid requirements.</p>
<p>A friend of my daughter’s is preparing all these requirements for flute auditions right now, to 15 different schools. He is frustrated with all of the baroque and classical requirements and wishes he could prepare more modern works. But, he wants to go to one of the “good” schools where the teachers he likes are, so he’s got to prepare what they ask.</p>
<p>One note about Jacobs, while the requirements might appear to be more flexible, it doesn’t mean it is any easier. The pieces mentioned are difficult, and the level required to gain admittance is going to be very, very high…</p>
<p>I think people are frustrated because you are expecting them to give specific answers to questions they can’t answer. Quite honestly, there is no way to know what you are looking for or how to recommend schools when we know so little. For example, is your problem with the more rigid curricula that you haven’t covered a lot of it (which would be fair)or you don’t feel comfortable on it? If that is the case, then you should list the repertoire you feel comfortable on to see if anyone can suggest schools that might accept the pieces you have. To give you an idea, kids have come on here for piano or violin where they mention they have done 1 movement of this concerto, 1 movement of this piece, a section of this etude, etc…and then are flummoxed when people point out most auditions require at the least contrasting movements, often the whole thing, and from memory…</p>
<p>There is another factor with schools, though, that goes beyond the repertoire, and that is what level you are at on it. How long have you been playing? Have you been studying privately, or has your experience been with a school music teacher? This is important, because the flute is as competitive as any of the instruments are, and more so, and with flutes they don’t admit a lot at most program (maybe a couple, at most), so it is incredibly competitive and the kids coming into these programs to audition are often at an incredible level…and the ones who apply to Juilliard and Curtis and the like apply to other programs and they are at that kind of level…but at least with an idea of where you are, from the repertoire and such, people could at least give general suggestions. Have you talked to a teacher about this, tried to get suggestions? Have you tried getting an evaluation of your skills from someone who knows the flute world? If you came to the board, and said “I have been evaluated by a teacher at a local college, and he/she seemed to think I was capable of playing at the level of competitive music schools” it would help a great deal as well. </p>
<p>Quite honestly, people suggested looking at websites to see if the repertoire of any schools looked like it matched what you could do. From there, if you said “I have done some research on schools, and the repertoire I have seems to match the following schools” people can give you suggestions on which of the schools might be up there, and so forth.</p>
<p>One of the things, Alice, that makes people wary on these boards is a lot of the times kids and parents come on here expecting people here can tell them with certainty what school they should go to, or tell them how mysteriously they can succeed in music, or the like, and that isn’t possible. Worse, a lot of kids come on here who have decided they want to go into music, and quite honestly have no clue about how tough it is to get into music programs these days, let alone ‘make it’ as a musician, a lot of kids have the idea that it is like switching majors in an academic course of study, and it isn’t; music these days is more like going to college, and them expecting you already have taken college level chemistry and physics, 4 semesters of calculus before being admitted to study engineering, kids coming into programs today are often at the level that of students that had been at conservatory for several years a generation ago. People on here want to be helpful, but often they have to deal with people who want perfect answers when the question itself isn’t very well defined…</p>
<p>I suggest looking at the problem from the other end. Instead of trying to figure out whether the school is any good, look for bios of flute players who have been successful at whatever it is you wish to accomplish, be that a solo career, a chair in an orchestra, a chamber ensemble, contest winners or whatever. Then find out a couple of things about them. First, are they themselves teaching anywhere and, if so, what are their recently graduated students doing. Second, who were their teachers. In some cases, you can trace it back another generation to find their teacher’s teacher. Once you have a list of teachers who are turning out students who are successful at whatever it is you want to accomplish, then you find out what schools those teachers happen to work for. Once you have that information, you can check out the audition requirements on the school web site.</p>
<p>The Larry Krantz Flute Webpage has a lot of good information and links about college for flute and auditions and who is teaching where. There are also a number of other flute sites that could probably help you. Are you a member of the National Flute Association? I have not looked in a while but they use to publish very good information about who is teaching where and you might even be able to find info online. Make sure you are going into your flute lessons with your questions and be clear you understand the answers. And if your teachers cannot help you ask them if they know someone who can. (I was a flute major along time ago.) Are you a senior now? If not try, or even if you are, try to go to a good summer music program next summer. Many of them have scholarships. The audition thing is confusing. We made a spreed sheet and it is still a lot of keep track of. Good luck.</p>
<p>Hey Aliceflute,</p>
<p>First before you read this I don’t think I can help you with your question. But you seemed like you were so innocently asking a question and I think you’re getting unnecessary grief about it on your thread, so that’s all I’m gonna talk about (in other words, you don’t have to read this cause it won’t answer your question. lol)</p>
<p>I personally didn’t see a thing wrong with your question and I instantly knew that you have already tried finding schools online but decided after no avail to come here. I’ve done the same. You look and look and look all over the internet, but nobody gives any straight up answers anymore. Everything’s got to be made complicated it seems.</p>
<p>To me there is nothing confusing or complicated about answering “Which schools are good to excellent?” (this point is more in direction to those posting who don’t like your question) It’s very simple, guys. What do we know about Harvard? Does anybody recall specifically how many awards their math team has won? Can you name one competition they went to? Probably not unless you’re on the team or have some significant relationship with that field at that school. But we don’t need to know all that to know that if you go to Harvard and you’re on their math team, YOU KNOW YOUR FREAKIN’ MATH! lol It’s simple and easy to understand.</p>
<p>Same with the music schools. We all know Julliard, IU, Berkelee, etc. are great. We’re not going to nitpick into why they are great, because it’s not necessary. So Aliceflute just wants to know what other schools have a lot of prestige but not as high standards for audition requirements as far as specifically outlining what piece you have to play. She wants to have a wide selection so she can pick the ones that suit her best. BOOM! I just made that question so much simpler. Now I don’t know squat about which other schools have relaxed audition requirements. So now somebody who knows something about it can take over and directly answer her without all the “look-it-up” or “what-do-you-mean?” talk. Thanks. :)</p>
<p>Saxguy: No, I think Aliceflute did not clearly communicate what she wanted initially. </p>
<p>In her first post she wrote: “basically getting to pick your own pieces.” Two posts later she wrote: “If it’s general like a Mozart concerto, 21st century piece, Bach sonata, French piece, a few orchestral excerpts, etc, that I can do because that’s still fairly general.” </p>
<p>Those are two very different things: 1. picking your own pieces versus
2. having to do a Mozart concerto, 21st century piece, Bach sonata, French piece, and a few orchestral excerpts.</p>
<p>Here are Juilliard’s requirements for live audition repertoire (cut and pasted from their site):
1.One movement of a J.S. Bach sonata, partita, or suite.
2.Two complete major works of contrasting styles and periods (excluding J.S. Bach and Mozart).
3.A complete Mozart concerto.
4.Four standard orchestral excerpts displaying a balance of technical and lyrical playing.</p>
<p>Juilliard’s requirements are less restrictive than those that Aliceflute lists as being general and acceptable to her:<br>
a) Juilliard requires only ONE Bach movement (as opposed to the entire sonata that Aliceflute lists) and the Bach movement can be from not just a sonata but also from a partita or suite;
b) Juilliard doesn’t require anything French;
c) Juilliard doesn’t require anything from the 21st century (and I honestly have never heard of that requirement–I have heard of a piece from the 20th or 21st century being required).</p>
<p>So, Alice how are Juilliard’s live audition requirements too specific for you when they are more general and liberal than those that you say are fine for you?</p>
<p>Perhaps Aliceflute was referring to the prescreening recording requirements (which are less onerous than the actual live audition requirements) which do mention some specific orchestral excerpts: for example, choosing two of four listed orchestral excerpts where one of the excerpts is all 4 (yes four) measures from the beginning of Afternoon of a Faun and the others are not much longer (13 measures of a Brahms symphony . . .). I think that 4 very slow languid measures could be learned in relatively short order, so I’m not sure what the issue is.</p>
<p>In addition, the conclusion of Aliceflute’s second post in this thread demonstrated that she has misunderstood the tone of the music section of CC which is almost invariably civil, polite, repectful and helpful. People here are not sarcastic and rude to others (in contrast to Aliceflutes’ “I asked this question in hopes of an answer, not a snippy response, thanks.”).</p>
<p>Hi Violindad,</p>
<p>I deeply respect your opinions that you’ve posted and this isn’t really a rebuttal to them, but more of an explanation of her intentions to anyone who may read this. But it also responses to what you’ve said in your most recent message.</p>
<p>I don’t think those are two different things. What she meant by pick your own pieces was pretty obvious. There’s no chance any school would say “Pick any piece in any genre you want” like it’s an America’s Got Talent thing. It’s pretty certain they’re going to have a basic idea, like “pick any piece of Mozart” or something like that. Mozart and Bach are versatile enough to be comfortable with; 21st century music is such a huge field, even if just one genre like classical; a French composition or any nationality is large enough to work with. It’s enough room to choose your own, but not too much to make it a very complicated audition to judge. And I’m sure Aliceflute knew there was some level of a buffer zone.</p>
<p>I think Aliceflute threw out Juilliard because, well… it’s Juilliard. lol If you’re comfortable with a 95% chance of rejection, I think you’re comfortable with any range of audition requirements.</p>
<p>And lastly, I don’t mean any disrespect to specific people who have posted earlier, but I must agree with Aliceflutes comment on the snippy response, because I was thinking the same thing. People ask questions on here in hopes of getting concrete answers or polite redirection. I don’t think “go look it up” is necessary and since this is a website (implying that Aliceflute has access to the internet), a comment like that does come off pretty rude.</p>
<p>If you do or don’t like my responses, that’s a-ok. I’d be glad to keep on reading in this post and I hope someone can soon direct Aliceflute to some specific schools. I’m unable to, not because her question is confusing but because I don’t have any knowledge of northeast music schools practically. I wouldn’t be any help at all.</p>
<p>As stated, I do not believe it is possible for any of us to answer the OP’s question in the form of a list of schools. I think it is pretty much impossible to tell a flutist that any given school would be “good to excellent” for them without having heard them play and without knowing what they hope to accomplish. Pick the best (whatever you think that means) school you like with the most famous teachers available and there will be students for whom that situation is flat wrong. </p>
<p>On the other hand, there may be an amazing teacher at an otherwise unremarkable school who would be an excellent match for a the right student. I know of a small local college that graduates fewer than ten music majors per year total over all instruments and voice combined. All of their applied teachers are adjuncts who rarely have more than two or three students in any given semester. The school has no orchestra and the only degree they grant is the BA. For several years, they had as an adjunct instructor the recently retired principal flute from the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra. He would have been welcome on the faculty of many a conservatory, but that is not what he wanted to do at that point in his life.</p>
<p>For these reasons, I think the OP should be starting by looking for the right teacher rather than starting with a list of schools. Suppose someone here were to produce a list with non-specific audition requirements, just as requested. Even if the author of the list were another flute student who had recently gone through this process, their needs, preferences, technique and style of playing could be very different from the OP’s. It would still be necessary to find out who teaches at those schools and to figure out whether their pedagogic methods and their particular expertise was the right match.</p>
<p>^if I might make a further suggestion in the interest of making it possible for the op to get further direction in her inquiry:
- please list what schools you’ve considered for which you find the requirements too restrictive
- Please list any schools your current teacher has recommended.
- Then ask for alternate schools that are well-reputed that have less restrictive repertoire requirements.
- Please refrain from insulting the posters who in fact may be well-positioned you assist you. It makes the rest of us wary to assist.</p>
<p>A fresh post with this in mind might go a long way toward providing meaningful responses.</p>
<p>Sax-
With all do respects, your claim that this is a simple request isn’t, and your posts show the same problem that many have on here and in the music world, that everything is about the school, and more importantly, that there is a magical formula to come up with ‘perfect’ schools, and that isn’t true or that the name means anything in of itself in picking a school.
There are ‘great music schools’ where the flute faculty, for example, is not that great, or the great teachers are practically impossible to get (a school like Juilliard, as well, could admit 1 flutist a year, and that is total, grad and undergrad). Not to mention that going to a name school goesn’t guarantee you anything…and like name academic schools, like Harvard, it isn’t one size fits hall, there are fields of study and such where HYP would not be a good place to go (and unlike HYP schools, where the name can open some doors, going to Juilliard or NEC et al’s name doesn’t guarantee anything in music, the ivy league still has some of the old boy network that can open doors, music school doesn’t offer that for the most part)</p>
<p>The other thing you are blowing off is she asked a question about ‘great or excellent schools’ that allow you to ‘pick your own pieces’, and her response on repertoire she may be able to play is equally vague to try and even give suggestions. </p>
<p>Sure, they could give a list of schools (people gave her links to flute programs) but want to know something? Wouldn’t mean all that much, because it may not be realistic for her. We see all kinds of kids on these boards and their parents, who come in here clueless (which is not untypical, most of us started that way I suspect),and we see kids who have been in public music school programs who claim to be great on violin, for example, and they you look at what they have been studying and realize they aren’t at the level to get into a good program…it is why specifics are important, something Alice didn’t give. Saying “you know, stuff like Mozart Concertos, Bach sonatas, I can deal with” doesn’t say a lot and I am not surprised few have answered, because people are trying to give good advice and help, not just pretend like music is this thing you go into like academics, because it isn’t. </p>
<p>Here is the reality of music schools, that may give you an idea of where I and they are coming from (and note, the people posting are familiar with the ins and outs of music/music school)</p>
<p>-Any kind of program that is at a decent level (for the most part) or a teacher at a less demanding overall program who is good, demand certain things from the kids applying. While there is wiggle room and different standards for audition, for the most part the repertoire you can audition on is relatively narrow (Juilliard for flute mentions some specific pieces, like Midsummers Night Dream by Mendelsohn, others might give broader lattitude). One of the things people were trying to see with Alice is what she already can play; if she is auditioning this year, she won’t be able to pick up new pieces and have them audition level ready, so what she knows is critical. And believe me, that would influence choices</p>
<p>-The repertoire itself is important, but then there also is the question of what level the student is at as well.Auditions are difficult, the kid has 10 minutes at most to make an impression, and the playing level for most programs/teachers at a decent to excellent level is going to be high…a student could come in and give me a list of violin concertos and sonatas that matches what let’s say Juilliard wants, but if the kid said he started playing violin when he was 15 and he finished all that in 2.5 years with school teacher, I would be very discouraging of that kid getting into any kind of auditioned program…</p>
<p>-Then, too, there is the teacher, if people know where a student is, they may be able to recommend for someone not quite as polished, a program where they can get in and potentially study with a great teacher. </p>
<p>In a sense, asking for a list of schools the way Alice did would be like going on an auto forum and saying “give me a list of great cars”, without specifying details like how much the person can afford, what kind of car, what they want to do with it, where they are going to drive it, and so forth.</p>
<p>The reason people are reluctant to answer the question is that it is very easy to give simple answers, like core dump programs they have heard of, but knowing how difficult the process is to find the right school they are loathe to do that, because in the end it won’t be very helpful. Music training, especially classical music training, doesn’t lend itself to simple answers in other words.</p>
<p>I mean all of this with total respect, as well. And I don’t want to come across as ill-tempered or anything like that. This website certainly isn’t the place for that. I enjoy the atmosphere of this site a lot. Everybody seems to want to be as helpful as possible. :)</p>
<p>Bassdad,</p>
<p>I don’t think that Aliceflute is wanting to know of schools that have strong teachers but overall are pretty weak schools. One good reason would be if she is trying to get a music-related job after college. Many employers won’t know specific teachers, but they will know if certain schools are great for music or just average. And usually strong schools will have strong teachers. That’s just how it works out to be. It’s true that some great schools just don’t work out for a lot of students, but even if she asks for generally great schools for music, I’m sure there will be at least a couple that would work for her if she then dove into research about them. It’s a general question not really meant for analyzing her ability as a flutist.</p>
<p>kmcmom13,</p>
<p>I like your idea. The OP (honestly don’t know what that stands for, but I assume in this case it’s Aliceflute) can list schools too restrictive and maybe one or two she might know have much less restrictions (but she may not want to go to for one reason or the other) and then posters can go from there.</p>
<p>Musicprnt,</p>
<p>You’re right, name of a school doesn’t mean everything. But you have to admit it means a good bit. You won’t find a weak player at a school like Juilliard. Not only are big name schools harder to get into, but it’s also a lot harder to graduate from (with honors at least). So if you take some local state school and compare it to Juilliard, the Juilliard grad is probably gonna get the job. I don’t think there are a lot of bells and whistles to that. There are exceptions to all of this now and again, but generally speaking, that’s pretty straightforward I would say.</p>
<p>And secondly, we’re not answering her questions by telling her “Here, this is a school that fits for you. You’re going there.” Anybody trying to answer her question knows that we’re not making her final decision. We’re giving options, she can go from there. The whole “these schools we name for her may not be right for her” is true in any situation. However, chances are at least one school that somebody names will be right for her. If not, that’s fine too. She’s not dependent on an online forum to tell her which school is right for. But rather to provide options and she can decide what might be right or might not.</p>
<p>Your car analogy is good for this kind of thing. But I would also say the question she is asking is more like “Give me a list of great cars” and you want her to say “Tell me what cars are right for me”. She’s not saying that at all and doesn’t expect anyone to know any idea of her level of performance. A lamborghini is a great car. I would tell her that. If she can’t afford it, she won’t take that option into consideration. If Juilliard is out of her reach as far as playing, she won’t take that option into consideration. But going down a list of schools we name her, there is bound to be one that is universally considered pretty good to excellent and fits her level of performance. If she could give her own specifics in some kind of way, that’d be great and definitely preferable. But I wouldn’t say we can’t answer her question in some kind of way.</p>
<p>Woo, didn’t expect this long of a message. Sorry about that. If y’all didn’t read all of this, I wouldn’t blame you. lol But thanks if you did.</p>