Interested in any thoughts/perspectives on our college search, as well as insight into options that perhaps we haven’t considered…
My junior DD is a 4.0 (UW) AP student (Calc, Chem, Physics, English this year) with an ACT of 35. Excels at math and science. Very independent and organized in her studies; but is a bit of an “ostrich with head in sand” with regard to the college search. So, we’re gently prodding and going to just go on some college visits over spring break to try to get the ball rolling. Wants to be a vet, but recognizes the reality that getting into vet school is a gamble, so she wants to have a marketable undergrad that gives her other options as well. She’s considering engineering … chemical or biomedical, thinking it might be easier to get the pre-reqs for vet school done via those curricula. She also knows that we only have so much $, so if she doesn’t want to take tons of loans for vet school, then she needs to minimize the cost of her undergrad. We live in MD. The options we’re collectively investigating so far are:
Go to our very good CC for a couple of years to knock out the vet prereqs and some other classes; then transfer to our very good in-state engineering school.
If she gets a good scholarship to our in-state school, do that.
Apply to other well-known universities out of state (e.g., Virginia Tech, NCSU, UDel, Bucknell), because as a high scoring female in an engineering program you never know what the scholarship $ offers might be, but recognize there might not be enough $ offered to offset the out of state costs to make it more affordable than (1) or (2). So, don’t set your heart on any of these unless you’re to take loans later.
Apply to “lower-ranked” universities (in terms of engineering) out of state who are likely to offer her bigger $ – U of Alabama, Mississippi State, Auburn, etc… Trade off here is the much greater distance from home (travel costs, and is she really ready to be that far away?), and the fact that these programs are less well known so might be less challenging (that might be a good thing, as far as maintaining GPA goes) and give her a less marketable degree. Example, MSU only requires a 23 ACT/1060 SAT for admission to engineering. On the other hand, she might be a “big fish” in these programs…
We have also cautioned her that while her desire to “follow the $” is practical, she also does need to seriously consider how good a fit the school is for her, especially if she’ll be far from home. $ doesn’t make up for a poor fit in which you’re living and studying at a place you really don’t enjoy.
You will set off a flurry of emails here from the usuals weighing in on “only morons pay for college” themes so I won’t steal their thunder. I say that as a full pay parent; we deemed MIT as well the colleges our other kids attended to be worth the pricing premium vs. their full ride opportunities. But I don’t tell other people how to spend their dough. Our kids didn’t need to be the big fish and found it bracing and inspiring to be in a classroom with kids who were truly brilliant students and not just easy A types.
I will point out that Auburn, U Alabama, etc are not “less well known”. If she’s serious about either engineering or vet school, it’s only when she dips into “directional state U” (i.e. Western CT State College) that she has to worry about adcom’s or employers not knowing the programs. When I hired engineers, our favorite target school was U Missouri at Rolla (now MST) even though my company didn’t have a single facility or office anywhere near Missouri. Rigorous curriculum, fantastic faculty, statistically might be easy to get in but very difficult to get out. And we weren’t competing with all the big companies who were flocking to the better known engineering schools so we got our pick of the top students.
YMMV. But I wouldn’t describe any flagship U or near facsimile as “less well known”. Maybe to the guy at your dry cleaner’s but not to employers or adcom’s.
I do think you need to really explore how you get into vet school. I know every state does not have one. In Texas, A&M has the vet school. I believe they allocate the majority of spots to students from Texas schools, so there would be an advantage of going in state. I would contact the likely vet schools she might attend and ask about their admittance policies.
I think your thoughts about lowering the cost of the undergraduate degree are right.
As far as well known universities vs lower-ranked, it highlights the differences between where you live. Here is Texas, VT and NCSU are on the radar but not Bucknell and UDel, even though I do know they have good engineering schools. Auburn is considered a very good engineering school and U of Alabama is getting better all the time. So, my take is look for the money and the find out the best path to vet school and that will help you with the final decision.
I have a friend who tried to do chemical engineering with the intention of going to vet school. She switched out. It’s hard, especially if you have no vested interest in being an engineer, and you’re going to learn a lot of things that are COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to being a vet. Like factory/chemical plant design.
The other big factor is how much colleges expect you to pay. If your income is low enough that you’re going to qualify for need-based aid, then some of the very most selective schools in the country (Ivies, Stanford, etc) can be among your very cheapest options. The very most generous schools will provide surprisingly large amounts of aid up to surprisingly high income levels. Stanford, for instance, is free tuition all the way up to incomes of $125K/year (though incomes in the upper part of that range will pay room and board).
If you’re full pay, then it’s an entirely different story, and your cheapest options will be schools offering full rides or big merit awards to kids with high stats. These will generally be less selective schools (many of which are nonetheless excellent).
If you’re somewhere in between, then you need to spend some time with some net-price-calculators on college websites. But don’t automatically assume that high prestige institutions will be a lousy deal for you financially.
I had the same thoughts as @bodangles - engineering majors may not be the best path to vet school if that’s the long term goal. You may need to check how easily it is to switch from one school (engineering) to another if she decides that she doesn’t want to study it. College Park sounds like a good possibility. Have you and your daughter visited yet?
As for prestige versus $$, that depends on what you and she can realistically afford. Set a net cost you are willing to pay. Run the NPC’s…
I suggest you really research what an engineering program requires in term of course difficulty. It is a very stressful major, and many students who have their hearts set on engineering don’t survive and have to switch majors. So don’t think it is an easy alternative for your pre-vet student. And GPA is a huge factor in going on to vet school, so you want to get coursework that meets the requirements, but not at the expense of your GPA.
I second the suggestion of picking the possible vet schools first, then work backwards from there. Find out what their requirements are, and where the majority of their students got their undergrad degree.
Has your child been exposed to some kind of vet shadowing/volunteering, or been able to demonstrate that the interest in vet school is backed up with the determination to work hard to get there? I suggest you look for tours at vet schools, talk with local vets, volunteer with pet rescues, or interview relatives or friends of friends who are vets.
If your daughter has a 4.0 SAT, and a 35 ACT, it’s likely that she can get some significant merit aid someplace. Blossom pointed out a few places. I can’t see any reason why she would need to explore the CC to four year university option. There will be many fine schools for her to choose from without this option.
There are a LOT of colleges between the Ivies where there is no need based aid…and community colleges where the costs are low.
Did she take the PSAT? What was her score on that?
Auburn and Va. Tech are quite equal in engineering circles and both are well known. The current CEO of Apple is an Auburn engineering grad. Hardly less well known, certainly not lower tier.
All that said, your daughter has high stats and may find she has many offers with merit money attached. You won’t know until you apply.
As for vet school, Va. Tech has an agreement with the State of Maryland - that is your “in-state” vet school.
I would try to avoid the CC route. I don’t think she will be challenged, the courses may not be rigorous enough to adequately prepare her to seamlessly move into an engineering program at a 4 year college etc.
I agree that fit is important. Maybe also look into Olin (I think everyone gets free tuition). Look into private schools – she might get merit aid at a good engineering school like RPI, Stevens Institute etc. (which are male dominated) and other good colleges where her stats put her in the top 25% of students.
At Olin, they do not get free tuition. I believe they give about a half tuition scholarship but the cost is still around $40,000. Also, they are very selective and only have 300 students in total.
I should have said, we do know what it takes to get into vet school, and are taking Virginia Tech’s Vet School Dean’s advice very seriously – her message was, “Go to your in-state option, or don’t go unless you can fund it without incurring added debt.” So that narrows the vet school options to 1, pretty much; it’s expensive enough with our in-state agreement. That means her chances of getting into vet school are 1:10. Thus, she needs to have a major that is marketable and offers her other career options she’d enjoy if she does not get in. We have talked about attending a university with a large animal program or vet school associated with it as being a plus, just from the perspective of the ease of switching majors if she decides to do that, and/or the opportunity to participate in pre-vet clubs, etc… It is easier to get into engineering (and as a female there may be more $$ that route) and then transfer out than it is to go in as something else and transfer in later if she decides that’s what she wants. She’s got the #'s to get in, so seems like it’s worth a shot. She knows she needs vet and animal experience. She’s got the animal experience by having pets here at home and working at a horse barn as a working student (that all counts); she’s doing an internship with a vet next year for half of the school day, so that will help with both the vet experience requirement and give her some insight into whether this is what she really wants or not.
And I didn’t mean to lump Auburn in with “lesser known” … it’s just on our list to hit when we do our spring break tour. I was more thinking of Alabama, which I realize is not “lesser known” as a university, but isn’t as “highly ranked” as Virginia Tech for engineering in particular, and MSU, whose admissions stats I found astonishing. But yes, you’re correct – my regional bias is showing … just because they’re not on my regional radar, doesn’t mean they’re not good programs. And that’s why we’ll be visiting to see them in person.
And as for the rigor of engineering programs, yes, we’re very familiar with that too. DH and I are both Virginia Tech engineering alum, and our DS is in engineering there now.
Oh, and as for PSAT score … yes, she took it … but we don’t have scores yet. That’s a completely separate rant against the College Board. We’re from MD, where SAT is king … but notice she took the ACT. That was intentional. When we heard the SAT was changing, we suggested she take the ACT as a buffer against potential chaos with the SAT. Turns out that was a good move. She did well enough on the ACT and judging by the PSAT score fiasco, the SAT is truly going to be meaningless this year, so she is done with standardized testing.
You might look at some other vet schools as well. I had a friend whose son is attending Oklahoma State over A&M, even though he is a Texas resident, because his chances of getting into OS vet school was better than at A&M. I don’t remember the specifics but they did a lot of research and that was the result. He probably also has a scholarship there.
Adding to all the sound advice so far: Engineering school GPA’s usually may not make the most competitive vet school applications. Also, the course load for engineering will make it hard to do vet-related EC’s in college, again something that would be important for a competitive applicant. As someone mentioned upthread, except for some core science classes, I don’t see much overlap between engineering courses and pre-vet. If the vet school is the objective, best to look into that first and work backwards.
OP’s child should not consider CC’s . UMD and UMBC are good in-state options; the latter may have more scholarships to offer, UDel also offers honors scholarships. All have enough options besides engineering. So start with that kind of list. You can add some privates that will give merit money, but I think they may rank a little less that the some of the state universities I mentioned. (Privates are not always >> than public in quality)
She’s got the stats for multiple great options . . . as much as I like the community college to university path for some students, for her I’d be leaning toward other choices (female in STEM - hello! - $$). You’ve had great suggestions above.
Target some reaches, matches and safeties. You’re at the perfect place to do that since she’s a junior.
OP- I hope you don’t feel this is a pile-on to the CC to University option.
But whether your D ends up majoring in engineering or something else; going to vet school or something else, the best possible route for a future scientist is to be in an environment with students and professors and labs and equipment and funding and all the “goodies” you find in a university. By sophomore year, one of my kids was working for a professor- when he didn’t have one of the core programming skills that the research required, the professor said during the interview, “It’s ok, the grad students will teach you”. When a simulation didn’t come out the way it was supposed to, the professor would sit down the in middle of the room and the students in the lab (undergrad, grad and post-doc’s) would shout out plausible theories or causes as the professor swiveled around to ask follow up questions. Engineering in particular- more about the curiosity and the journey and getting inspired.
Your D may be able to tick off some pre-req’s at a CC but she won’t get the full immersion experience of “learning science” at a CC. Her stats put her in the running for affordable university option… I’d start there.