" Wants to be a vet, but recognizes the reality that getting into vet school is a gamble, so she wants to have a marketable undergrad that gives her other options as well. "
OP, my D. also had HS GPA=4.0 uw but lower ACT = 33. She was also thinking about selective type of career - medical school. I heard that vet schools are even more selective though. D. decided NOT to focus on the fact that she might not make it. She rather focused on the plan of how to make sure that she makes it into medical school. Sometime going after 2 goals may not result in accomplishing any. But it depends on the student determination and your kid seems to be very determined. Anyway, I can only describe my own D’s experience. She decided to follow the $$, she absolutely did not care about presitge. She knew that medical schools do not care about the name of the UG, which may not be the case of vet. schools, you got to figure it out. My D. attended the in-state public on full tuition merit award. She was accepted to 4 medical schools after, 2 in top 20. The fact that we did not pay for her UG saved us family resources to be used for her medical school. That allowed her to choose the medical school that she liked the best (and was good for her intended specialty) vs. the cheapest one out of 4. My D’s plan worked perfectly FOR HER, she matched to her top choice of residency in very selective specialty that she wanted to pursue way back in HS and she graduated from medical school without student loans (only 16% of graduates have no medical school loans).
You have to assess your family situation and your D’s desires and goals and plan accordingly. One of my D’s goal was to be in UG that she actually liked a lot, while her comment in regard to her ultimate goal was: " I will do fine anywhere".
Best wishes choosing! I am sure that your D. will make a wonderful vet!
Even more reason to heed the advice given here. I’ve noticed that parents have a hard time seeing outside their own domain, myself included. I’m not saying your daughter can’t do engineering but that because you studied engineering, your husband studied engineering and now your son, that would be your default pick. There are other majors that lead to jobs.
One other observation- you say your daughter is a bit “ostrich in the sand” toward the college search right now but you seem to have a quite detailed list of possibilities and definite opinions of what she’s going to study and where. Maybe she needs to run the show a little? I would visit a few schools - College Park, UMBC, Delaware, UVa, Temple are all within a few hours. Back off a bit on the majors and vet school for now - it may be too much of a major life to-do list for a high school junior… Truly, she will have lots of options next year far beyond community college.
Thanks, all. Sounds like overall, we’re generally on the right path … keeping options open, with an eye toward what it takes for vet school if that continues to be the goal.
To be clear, the CC route is not the “preferred” route … just happens to be one in the mix for consideration. Not her favorite or ours, but also not one we’re willing to dismiss out of hand.
We are going to visit the deep south schools on spring break because that trip takes a dedicated amount of time; we can hit UDel, Bucknell, etc., with a day trip here or there. We have already visited UMCP – she thought she would hate it and came away saying she could see herself being happy there. We’ll hit UMBC at some point. Vet school has been her “default” goal since she was 10; this year, with exposure to AP Chem, Calc, Physics, she’s been saying things like, “I think I still want to be a vet, but engineering sounds pretty cool to me too. You can do so much really neat stuff with it.” So, she’s not giving up vet school, but her horizons have been broadened and whether vet school ends up being the ultimate goal is very much in play. And she still may not know that by this time next year. We’re not just pushing engineering, but given her interest there, we are suggesting she look at schools that offer engineering (vs. those that don’t at all). When we visit the schools, we are doing visits to the engineering and arts/sciences programs, so she sees more of the options available. She’s pretty practical, and even she says, “I think it’d be cool to do large animal science … but what the heck can I do with that if I don’t get into vet school? Not much that I couldn’t do without a degree.” There actually is a decent amount of crossover between vet school prereqs and some biomedical and chemical engineering curricula. She is looking at those, but we’re also encouraging her to think in terms of not just the crossover but where her interests are; she can always do vet school prereqs in summer or at CC (Virginia Tech’s vet school dean specifically said they do not care where you get your UG degree or do your prereqs… doing all the prereqs at CC is just fine with them).
Her “head in the sand” is more with regard to sitting down and figuring out what schools she’s interested in; she’d just rather not think about it because she’s so busy and involved in life now (e.g., busy with EC’s and classes; happy with her friend group and not wanting to even think about that changing, etc.). Her ideal based on what she knows right now would be to go to Virginia Tech for UG; but the reality is, out of state it is very expensive and while she may get some $, the likelihood is that she won’t get alot (DS got a small amount for his first year, and we’re fairly convinced that was because we are legacies, since we know kids with better stats who got nothing). So, we’re trying to strike a balance between letting her “drive” and giving her enough exposure to potential options to spur more self-driven interest and/or at least give her enough info so she has some idea of where she wants to apply next year. Applications will be completely her deal (e.g., where she wants to apply and working through them). But the reality is that these next few months are the best opportunities to visit; next fall, opportunities will be much more limited just based on schedules. Her interest in the topic of college does go in spurts; some days she’s in complete denial … but then there are days like today, when, after having done some looking at options via BigFuture (at my prodding during the snow day yesterday), she sat down and watched video tours of some of the schools on her list. She liked something about all of them. Ultimately it will be her decision; the more expensive her UG, the less $ will be available to help with vet school if she goes that route, so at that point she’ll have to take on debt. We just want her to look enough now that she has information for applying and making those decisions next year.
Call me an idealist but she sounds like a very strong student who probably has what it takes to get into vet school down the line. So pick a major that feeds directly into that, somebody mentioned reverse-engineering the process - that sounds smart to me. I would not recommend CC. She’s worked her tail off and should be with other motivated, smart kids and I’m sure she’ll be eligible for merit money at good places. I’m not saying that you won’t find smart, motivated people in CC, but it will be a more mixed student population including non-traditional students going back to school.
Just my opinion, but I’d go straight to the brass ring instead of picking a “practical” engineering course in case the vet option doesn’t pan out.
Your D needs to consider the academic peer group she will be with. This means choosing a more costly 4 year university instead of any two year option. Among 4 year schools she also needs to consider the rigor to be among academic peers. Usually state flagships have top tier (like your D) students because they serve that group more than other state schools (some states have more than one top tier school). With her interest in sciences she likely should not choose a school where most students are into “liberal arts” leaving only a few students to share her interests.
Once she has decided on the above cost of course is a huge factor. Veterinarians typically do not make that much money compared to physicians so she should not anticipate earning huge amounts to offset the cost of her education. Getting scholarship money to offset high costs is also not common even for top tier students, especially at many public schools. Since her current goal is becoming a vet I suspect being in the very elite schools as one in the middle is not to her advantage. Hence the state school comment in a post above.
There are huge differences in engineering and sciences- chemistry and chemical engineering for one. I suspect her interests lean more to science than engineering. But, there are many good schools with good options for both since she is still refining her goals and will continue to do so in college. With her good work ethic and background knowledge obtained in HS she likely can handle any STEM majors at most schools and do well. Her biggest challenge could be being stimulated enough to keep her interest, hence needing a school with other high achieving students plus enough challenging opportunities. There are many of those.
Once she has figured out a minimum threshold for schools meeting her academic needs she can look at costs and other factors. She needs to pay attention to the social/cultural environment as well. This is where school visits come into play. Public schools have different flavors based on the state’s residents that make up the majority of the student body. You and she are used to your hometown environment and may not realize how different an area can be elsewhere. There are liberal/conservative and religious attitude differences in different regions. For example, not all Christians are alike- rollicking Catholics versus staid Bible based churches are an example. It all depends on your D’s comfort zone. Being a lonely only is not the same as being exposed to a different culture. There needs to be an acceptance or a minority with compatible beliefs. The social/emotional costs of the cheaper dollar school could matter.
Junior year is the time to look at colleges. Visit many close to home- small, large, city, rural, public, private and others within easy driving range. Plan a visit to areas with potential schools on spring break. This means your D does some homework now. Have some dream schools as well as practical ones on the list. Start with many and then pare down the list. Have her make lists of various potential majors and research some at various schools. Patterns will arise. Ultimately there will be a number of schools that will give her a good education in the major she chooses once she is in college, enable her to have good stats for vet school admissions and be as affordable as possible while meeting other criteria.
Prestige means nothing. Harvard grads end up doing the same job at the same salary in the same town as many others. Top tier challenges can be found at many top tier schools- including most state flagships. She doesn’t need the most challenging school, but one with enough challenge. Costs will determine favorites among those meeting other criteria as in a why pay more for a similar experience? All public U’s within a state are NOT similar, btw.
I’m sure you are aware that even though she is a top student in her HS there are so many others at other HS’s that she is in a reasonably large peer group. Although some get the mega scholarship awards there will be many with similar abilities and records who do not. It varies by state- some give automatic merit awards for certain stats along with needs awards while others do not- Wisconsin being among the stingy ones.
I’ll just say (as a community college graduate) that I agree that CC is almost certainly not the best avenue for this student, but Maryland is one of the few states that gets CC-as-an-actual-collegiate-option right. Some (though not all) of Maryland’s CCs have quite good science lab facilities and opportunities for working in them, in fact—the problem, though, becomes the handoff, where the CC-to-4-year transfer doesn’t have the connections with faculty at the 4-year school to ease directly into more advanced research experience right at the beginning of junior year.
btw- your D sounds mature. She has a dream but flexibility in it. It will be interesting for you to see what she ultimately chooses for both a college major and career path. Good luck to her.
Option one should not be on the table. With her test scores, she is capable of going to any college in the country. Schools ranked below 20 will be throwing money at her to attend. However, depending on the families income, schools like Princeton might be cheaper to attend. UMD will be excellent safety school for her, and you should expand your horizons beyond the schools you listed.
She may well be a good candidate for merit at UMD, which has a very good engineering school.
As someone said upthread, if her PSAT score is in line with ACT, she may well beat the cutoff for National Merit. While a lot of schools don’t care or give much money for that, some do and certainly worth sitting for the test.
I agree with everyone else that CC does not seem like an optimal (or even necessary) option for this student, even in MD. Has she volunteered or worked at a vet? The headmistress of my high school which had an internship program for every student that used to joke that half the students who worked for vets realized they didn’t actually want to be vets after the experience. A good thing to figure out in high school not college! In any event about half of students change majors before graduating.
Sounds like she’s got a decent shot to be a NMF - hope you get those scores soon! and if so, there is another whole list of schools she can consider.
January of junior year is early days yet for kids to be thinking about colleges. I dragged my oldest to see colleges for the first time in April of junior year, and decided to start with a visit or two in February for my youngest. We started with places that were nearby so that he could see some different campus types (big/small, rural/urban/suburban, private/public).
Some top schools like Ivies have financial aid that makes them more affordable than state schools: a family with an income of $150K pays only $15K at Harvard, for instance. Other privates give merit aid as well. Having challenging peers around is important for many. I’m a fan of CC’s but not for a student like your daughter (sorry to join the pig pile).
Is she sure she wants to be a vet? Many kids have aspirations that change frequently. Could she just go to a school as a biology major initially, take a variety of classes, and see where she ends up in terms of major? I don’t think kids need to have a specific career plan when they enter college, though some find it motivating. Still, I think it is iffy to plan everything around a plan that could change. That includes financial planning.
She could actually major in anything and still get into vet or medical school (with the prereqs’ done of course).
Maybe this spring she could try out some vet tech classes to test the waters.
"Your D needs to consider the academic peer group she will be with. "
- I imagine that at absolutely at ANY UG, pre-vets (just like pre-meds) are automatically in the crowd of valedictorians. If it is not true right away, it will be true probably after the first semester or so. I am not sure about the “survival” rate among pre-vets, it is only 15% among pre-meds, so only the strongest HS val’s actually survive on the track, meaning that only about 15% of initial pre-meds will ever apply to med. school and I am sure that the number is also very low for the pre-vets. So, I would not worry too much about “peer group” as these are automatically very high caliber students. In addition, kids like OP’s D. do not need any peer’s pressure whatsoever, I know that because my D. did not need it. In fact she was always searching for friends who are not “intense” and who she can just have fun. That has been always some kind of issue that D. needed to take a special care. So, she added Music minor and joined sorority, both of which had great positive influence on her during college. She said that it is hard to be strictly among intense pre-meds. I am sure that it is the same situation with pre-vets and engineering will add only additional pressure.
I’d look into the UMD honors program. Instate tuition with very good FA and merit, including full ride (Banneker/Key Scholarships). Gets to be with cohort of high achieving, bright kids in a living/learning environment.
Your daughter sounds like she will do well wherever she ends up. If she wants to learn a little more about engineering, the Young Scholars program at UMD has a good 3 week long engineering class. There’s also a JHU 3 or maybe 6 week class she could try during the summer.
Here are some suggestions:
- Reverse engineer (pun intended) what are the top feeder colleges for the vet schools your D is interested in
- Research what are the most popular majors for vet school admission
- Learn what stats are needed for vet school admission
- Strategize what program(s) at which school(s) maximize your D's chance of living her dream
Just curious, has she spent time at a vet clinic either shadowing or interning? Has she spent a lot of time around animals besides the family dog/cat?
Note that the best merit aids go to freshmen and not to transferred students.
I live in VA so I’m definitely familiar with Virginia Tech. Given the information you have provided definitely consider UMCP. I know someone who graduated from Montgomery Blair High school who got a full scholarship to UMCP and studied electrical engineering. He graduated this past year and is now attending Tufts for vet school. UMCP’s engineering program is a very rigorous program. Out of state costs for Virginia tech will definitely be much higher.
If her mind is set on vet school try to graduate debt free from undergrad.
“The Banneker/Key Scholarship is the most prestigious merit scholarship we offer to freshmen. It can cover up to the full cost of tuition, mandatory fees, room and board and a book allowance, and includes admission to the Honors College. Several other partial scholarships are offered, ranging from one- to four-year awards.”
(taken from UMCP’s website)
Trying to do engineering and premed/prevet requirements is a challenge. My own daughter is premed/bioengineering.
(sophomore) Given what I know now I wouldn’t recommend the engineering/med/vet school path.
Someone mentioned (MIAMIDAP? ) trying to follow two paths sometimes doesn’t accomplish anything.
My daughter took part in the summer scholars program. Would definitely recommend applying for it.
Interesting thread.
I’m asking a question based on ignorance, so don’t kill me: why vet school?
I’m not asking about your daughter particularly, as she sounds talented enough to succeed at many things, but just in general: is vet medicine a growing field? I just don’t know any vets.
Why not medical school? It seems like it would open up more options.
If my daughter was thinking of vet/medical school, I would be looking at a biology or physiology undergraduate programme. Even biochemistry would be good. I’m thinking of courses that would be useful down the line in professional school.
I wish you the best.
There are some full tuition scholarships out there, like the Boston University Trustee Scholarship that she would be competitive for. Lots of medical type of internship possibilities in the Boston/Cambridge area as well as research options. I have heard that University of Minnesota offers scholarships. They have a vet school. UWisc Madison is another one that comes to mind. Are these all too far for you?
As to the above comment #38, if my child was looking at vet/med school I would NOT necessarily push a bio major. Bio majors are a dime a dozen. I would suggest they study whatever they want as long as they take all the vet/med prereqs that they will need to get in and to do well enough on the MCAT or vet school equivalent.