<p>I want to play football in college and also study engineering. I have a 33 on the ACT and a 670(writing) 690(reading) 780(math) on the SAT with a 3.9, 4.0+ weighted GPA. I have mostly been looking at Ivy League schools for football but was wondering if it was realistic to play football and maintain decent marks in an engineering program. I have been looking at Princeton and Penn mostly.</p>
<p>Engineering is difficult. Engineering and a sport is very difficult but more possible at an Ivy or Patriot League school at the D1 level as well as some select D3 schools IMHO. Ivys & Patriot League scools have limits on the number of games, number of practices, practice times and travel that other D1 schools don’t have, however much will still be expected of you. I suggest reviewing Princeton and Penn’s whole roster to see how many engineering majors to get a rough idea, and asking the recruiting coach about your intended major should they become serious about recruiting you. My son just graduated with an Ivy engineering degree and played a sport for 4 years. Your grades and scores are not that different from my son’s however he did attend a magnet high school that specialized in engineering that gave him a leg up with Admissions and a head start with engineering classes. It can be done. It is a lot of work with no shortcuts. Good luck.</p>
<p>Agree with Fenway - especially with his suggestion about reviewing the rosters. Do not pay any attention to freshman listed (those are expressions of wishes, desires, hopes); rather look at junior and senior majors.</p>
<p>I can speak about princeton engineering and athletics (I have a son who played baseball and was an Econ major and a daughter who is a rising sophomore who declared as a Chem E). </p>
<p>I think that while it is possible, that possibility is remote and only the fewest of the few can do athletics and engineering. At the Princeton Athletic banquet last year, not a single athlete recognized was an engineer. One did get into medical school - as an Econ major.</p>
<p>Football is an incredibly grueling sport; team practices cannot be missed. As a freshman you’ll be exhausted your entire first semester - and taking (in an enforced grade deflation environment) Calc, physics, chem, and an elective. Second semester (no games, just lifting and spring drills) you’ll be taking Calc, physics, COS (half the class will already be proficient in programming and even the majority of those will be stressed), chem, an elective, and writing seminar. There are no special athletic tutors (and even tutors for regular students can be arranged only after clearing some serious red tape); but there are office hours (and the profs are there to help you and they do a great job but the time commitment is heavy) and help is available at the student center (McCosh).</p>
<p>Remember, Fenways son went to an Ivy where there are lots of engineering students; at Princeton only about 325/1600 students are engineering majors. It’s tough tough tough - for non athletes; harder by levels of magnitude for athletes.</p>
<p>Add to that the normal desire to socialize and you have a huge mountain to climb. There are simply not enough hours in a day. Do not expect that you will be unique; every student at Princeton is unique.</p>
<p>Thank you both for the advice, for the reasons you mentioned I have probably been leaning more heavily towards Penn lately, among other things. I talked with the coaches and at Penn there are about 20 engineers on the roster I believe so that is encouraging. Now all that stands is paying for all of this… Does athletics ever help with financial aid or is it strictly need based? I ask because my dad makes a pretty healthy amount of money but I have to pay tuition.Any advice?</p>
<p>WLNLHS - If Penn or others are truly interested, see if you can spend some time (unofficial or official visit) with the engineering majors discussing the football program and the specific major . My son was mechanical engineer and material science. His girlfriend was a soccer player and chemical engineer. Very different classes, requirements and seasons. I think the Fall sports have it much tougher especially for incoming freshmen.</p>
<p>Ivy, NESCAC and other highly competitive academic schools tend to be need based blind financial aid. There is so much demand to get into these schools, they can get away with their high tuition. If your household income is uncomplicated and over (about) $180K , then your family will most likely be paying for the full amount. Sorry, I don’t make the rules. Academic scholarships are rare as everybody is pretty smart, but there are a few I’m aware of at my son’s school. Athletes can be awarded grants, as it is a private institution…they can do what they want with their money. This would be something you’d want to ask the Coach or Admissions about.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>No academic based scholarships from either Princeton or Penn directly to the student. There may be outside academic based money available (e.g., coca-cola, Ford, etc.). </p>
<p>As to your observation about engineering majors at Penn, I did a quick look at their roster and found several who are in the College of Enginnering and Applied Science. However, that does not mean that those players are engineering majors. </p>
<p>This is from the College of Engineering and Applied Science website: </p>
<p>“The Bachelor of Applied Science (BAS) is a degree option that offers students breadth and allows them to combine a technology-based degree with considerable course work in the liberal arts, communications, or fine arts. This degree is designed primarily for students whose interests are not oriented toward a professional engineering career. It is a popular degree option for those preparing for careers in medicine, business, and law. The BAS degree requires a minimum of 40 course units.”</p>
<p>So, ask the coach the hard question: how many engineering majors are on the team? If the coach answers by referring to the College of Engineering and Applied Science, rather then answering your very specific question, ask again, and again and again until you get the direct answer (I.e., how many engineers). Remember this: coaches are masters (if needed) at dodging hard questions by supplying answers from which you draw whatever conclusions you want to draw.</p>
<p>Since the Ivy League is D1AA, it’s not as big of a commitment as if it were a D1A team like Alabama or Florida. You should be fine managing both. You probably won’t even begin work related to you major until junior year.</p>
<p>I have two issues with AnnieBeats’ assertions. First, Alabama and Florida are D1, not D1A. More importantly, it is flat out wrong to suggest that an engineering major in the Ivy League (or anywhere) won’t study engineering their first two years at college.</p>
<p>stemit brings up a great point. One worth a lot of further investigation. I’d specifically investigate what degree one receives from any accredited engineering program. </p>
<p>AnnieBeats - In fact, one must apply and be accepted going into soph year for the particular ivy engineering program I’m familiar with. Son was taking engineering classes soph year while playing a college sport for 4 years. Your optimism on football time commitment and engineering is overwhelming. Please share your experiences in either or both. Did your son or daughter also have spare time for ROTC?</p>
<p>I disagree strongly with this. </p>
<p>As to work relating to your major, the foundation courses (Calc, physics, COS, chem) are incredibly difficult. There is no comparison to HS courses in the same subject area. Engineering majors apply at the end of freshman year. At Princeton it is also all but impossible to change your concentration (major) after the third semester (can’t finish all the requirements - especially language) and graduate in four years. So you better be sure of your interests early (son decided against engineering during the week of partying before classes began).</p>
<p>I was also unaware that big time football programs are heavily populated with engineering majors; in fact, I believe the opposite is true. </p>
<p>Engineering requires an incredible amount of study and class time (my Econ son took a single semester of five classes; my daughter takes and will take five classes almost every semester). So, even assuming that football related hours are less at Ivy schools, that is counterbalanced by the additional class and study hours needed to successfully navigate engineering (especially when compared to the [no disrespect intended] favored majors at big football programs).</p>
<p>Unless you are absolutely committed to the Ivy League, consider studying engineering at Carnegie Mellon. It is Division III athletics, which might be less demanding of time (I don’t know, just guessing). Their engineering degrees are going to be as respected as almost any of the Ivy League schools. CMU is ranked number 12 in the world for engineering and technology according to this website:
<a href=“Subject Ranking 2013-14: Engineering & Technology | Times Higher Education (THE)”>http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2013-14/subject-ranking/subject/engineering-and-IT</a></p>
<p>If this sounds worth exploring, you also might check out Case Western Reserve. It’s Division III as well.</p>
<p>Here is a recent article highlighting the engineering students on Cal Poly’s baseball team. </p>
<p><a href=“https://ceng.calpoly.edu/features/engineering-students-contribute-to-cal-poly-baseballs-historic-season/”>https://ceng.calpoly.edu/features/engineering-students-contribute-to-cal-poly-baseballs-historic-season/</a></p>
<p>On a team of 35, four (including a freshman [at CP you pick your major before you matriculate]) majored in engineering. Great achievement for these guys!</p>
<p>But, CP is known as an engineering school and roughly 30% of their students are engineers; so, clearly the team is not representative of the student body. </p>
<p>CP is a fine school; but I believe the competition from other students is greater at the schools the OP is seeking. The article just illustrates the difficulty in balancing engineering and D1 athletics. The article points out how the boys sacrificed all semblance of a normal social life to achieve their major. </p>
<p>RPI and Carnegie-Mellon spring to mind as options. Penn and Princeton don’t have merit scholarships, but RPI has a very generous program based on SAT scores.</p>
<p>If you don’t go to an Ivy, life will be easier for you if you go to an engineering school IMHO. Caltech doesn’t have football as far as I can see though. Rose-Hulman does have football.</p>
<p>PS - Princeton and Penn are VERY different academically. Princeton tends to be very theoretical, Penn more applications-based. You really need to check out which is a better fit for you in terms of the campus environment. I would say HYP are more similar than the other Ivies, and Penn is not like HYP.</p>
<p>Some schools (read athletic programs) will try to convince athletes to take lower time commitment majors. I have a friend who played for Cornell that was pressured that way and another who went to one of the service academies who left because he wanted to focus more on his academics than his sport.</p>