<p>update: thomas replaced as team captain, no longer listed on harvard team roster. may have been permanently suspended.</p>
<p>I love how when things like this come about people claim that this sort of thing happens on EVERY campus... yet when some news about some kid who did something pretty interesting and happens to be a Harvard student then it's 'cause stuff like that ONLY happens at Harvard... which one is it? Are you all an average college or one that ought to be looked at by higher standards? </p>
<p>On a tangent, I think a lot of this can be tied to the Kavya (sp) scandal. I have quite a few friends already at Harvard and some heading this year, and it perplexed me to see how strongly they stood behind her and refuted my notion that Harvard ought to have taken stricter measures against that - well, certainly not have commended her for a post as a senior fellow (or w/e that program is called where seniors mentor freshmen) - since it seeks to continue to be known as a place which takes ethics and integrity very seriously. But, when I said that, I again got the remarks that she is just a "normal" college student who just made a mistake.</p>
<p>Again, which one is it? When should we set the bar high and when should we set it low?!</p>
<p>felipecocco:</p>
<p>You've certainly picked an odd time to question where Harvard "sets the bar" and whether it in fact "takes ethics and integrity very seriously." I would have thought that this Crimson article about the ex-football captain - whose case, it seems, is being dealt with in the most severe way possible - wouldn't be raising such questions but, if anything, would be answering them.</p>
<p>Oh, and by the way: I don't know anyone who would claim that the only college students who are doing "interesting" things are those who attend Harvard. Not only are there young people doing "interesting" things who go to other schools; there are even young people who - difficult as it may be to believe in the CC world - are doing not merely "interesting" but amazing things without bothering to go to college at all.</p>
<p>My argument isn't very much intended at what the consequences to these actions have been but at how people have tried to portray these. I certainly agree with you when you say that it is indeed refreshing to see that Harvard has dealt with this issue very seriously - which it should've. </p>
<p>What I was trying to address is the comments that this episode and the other one I alluded to have attracted... that these two things are common in every campus, that this is all in the range of "normal," and that therefore these incidents shouldn't be counted against Harvard, so to speak.... this is the notion I have trouble with.</p>
<p>If it wants to be regarded as one of the finest institutions of higher learning, as one that admits the future international elite of politicans, academics and business leaders of the future, that, in cases like this, it'd be measured against these standards... not to those of Podunk U. To me, this has to be proportional. Some in these threads have demonstrated shock at the event - which is an appropriate response. Being Harvard, however, I feel that the school should take this to be an even greater fault against its ideals... and deal with it accordingly.</p>
<p>I guess what I am trying to say - and I have been so ineloquent so far, i know - is that I feel that students at top schools should be that much more responsible for their actions. I think that being a student at a number of these schools - and Harvard may certainly be the main example - should add a greater burden to the actions of the students than those who attend less selective colleges. This fine gentleman over there was admitted because Harvard (should've) believed that he'd be an outstanding academic and athletic addition to their school... that this guy would go on and for the rest of his life help further the notion that Harvard is indeed a place which graduates outstanding individuals. Having turned several kids down in order to offer this guy admittance, I feel that any private school would be well within their right to go as far as expelling these kinds of students who exhibit totally unethical or illegal behavior. At top schools, I feel that students OUGHT to be taken to that kind of standard. And I don't just mean Harvard... but recently Harvard has certainly provided the more glaring examples of a school who has come up short of my remedy for these things. Further, I admit that my expectations are certainly very extreme, but I try to position myself in the face of other talented athletes who wanted to attend H and didn't get in, or other talented writers who did their work in an honest fashion yet weren't admitted either and I can't help but imagine how schools like Harvad, knowing that there were kids like that which they turned down, that they wouldn't go the fullest extent in punishing kids who were given this tremendous opportunity and just completely blew it... or at the very least proved themselves to be totally undeserving.</p>
<p>If your question is whether students at Harvard are human, the answer, obviously, is yes.</p>
<p>Btw, congrats on your admission to UChicago. It's a terrific school - I think you'll enjoy it there. But yes, the students there are human too.</p>
<p>they are - but i contend that had either of these things happened there, I would've liked to see the students expelled as well...</p>
<p>What does your (UC) student code of conduct say? It should be clear. Go read it. </p>
<p>What you should understand, if you're smart enough to get into UChicago, out of 6000 undergrad students at Harvard, you are going to get some that make a mistake. Take out your frustration over being turned down for Harvard in a more positive manner. Since you aren't there, it's really not for you to decide whether they took appropriate action is it? And by the way, in this country, it is innocent until proven guilty. If colleges expelled everyone accused of a crime before trial, the lawsuits would be flying. </p>
<p>My comment about still playing at UT, OU, and Miami has nothing to do with his athletic skill (and you know this, afan). It is an indication that Harvard does take a harder line than other institutions that are more fixated on winning than education. The football powerhouses routinely play kids that are awaiting trial, or buy them out of their problems.</p>
<p>There are drunk idiots at every school.</p>
<p>The question is, if Thomas is found guilty of the offenses, should he be thrown out of Harvard (and not just kicked off the team)?</p>
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<p>Take out your frustration over being turned down for Harvard</p>
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<p>cite? looks to me like he applied early to chicago (and thus not harvard) and has been sold on going there for months.</p>
<p>I caught the distinct flavor of sour grapes.......</p>
<p>Many colleges have a policy of booting out convicted felons. I don't know if Harvard does or not. Since it is not a college honor code violation, I assume they will do no more and no less than what is written in their policy book. It did occur on school property, so my assumption is that he will be suspended from school for at least a year and have to apply to come back, probably after anger management counseling. That's purely conjecture on my part. Who knows if it will be a conviction, it could be deferred adjudication if he hasn't been in trouble before. Or they may make an example of him. Either way, I am quite confident they won't act before trial is complete, as it should be.</p>
<p>another update: starting quarterback liam o'hagan reportedly suspended for the first half of the season. reason unspecified.</p>
<p><a href="http://biggreenalertblog.blogspot.com/%5B/url%5D">http://biggreenalertblog.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>the team seems to be imploding before the season even starts. How many suspensions is it for this year? </p>
<p>I guess the QB will be back in time to defeat Yale though.</p>
<p>O'Hagen is hardly the best quarterback on the roster. He lucked into the starting slot after the start of last season due to injuries and other factors.</p>
<p>yet another harvard player reportedly suspended: WR keegan toci. if correct, that would be five already this young season.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.voy.com/152805/32918.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.voy.com/152805/32918.html</a></p>
<p>very interesting. is harvard the new duke?</p>
<p>And why doesn't that make the front pages of the New York Times? Maybe these football players were admitted under their early admissions policy?</p>
<p>Because the NYT very clearly has its own bias. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2148546/%5B/url%5D">http://www.slate.com/id/2148546/</a></p>
<p>Harvard 38, Brown 21.</p>