My " story" might be just that, but I doubt it. The player in question did end getting a scholarship to a D1 school, and will be their top QB recruit. The school is nowhere near Cornell academically, but is significantly better football wise. Also, It’s not exactly bragging to say that you could’ve gone Cornell, but that you weren’t smart enough. Even if he had been able to get his scores up to an acceptable level, I think the kid and his family are making the right choice. The school he is going to is a better fit. He is getting a full ride, and will still get a decent education. Cornell would’ve been very, very tough for him, I’m guessing, and his family not having to spend a cent on college is a big bonus.
@57special, no doubt there are a handful of kids every year who are admitted to Ivys with what would otherwise be considered very low test scores. The problem in my experience is that people tend to extrapolate from these truly extraordinary athletes and assume that if a P5 level quarterback can get supported at Cornell with a 24 ACT then a kid who is decidedly not at that athletic level can get support with less than stellar scores as well.
And I think you are exactly right that a kid with scores at that level are far better off going somewhere else where they maybe have a better chance of succeeding academically.
@OldbatesieDoc @Ohiodad51 @57special @jprtaco
My apologies for my initial comment about the ACT in 24-25. I think it’s been misconstrued.
In exactly 2 instances, I had former teammates who were specifically told their score there would be ok there for NESCAC only because they were also told they were #1 on the boards and they would be applying as Early Decision. They both got the offers. I agree with @Ohiodad51 that these are exceptional cases because most folks are not #1 on the recruitment boards.
My experiences are that strong test scores and GPA are important. I was often told an ACT 29-31 will make me sufficiently competitive, and a few of the very top ones wanted more in the 32-34 range. There are exceptions but I wouldn’t expect a top D3 to work with an ACT below. As for Ivy, there’s probably slightly more leeway, but barely more than a point or two, but that’s @ohiodad51 's wheelhouse.
My initial comments are of a different direction. @ohiodad51 is much more of an expert on Ivy. However, the feedback I was getting from coaches was that my academics mattered much more at D3s than Ivies. I’m not a powerhouse D1 athlete–perhaps a contender for one because I did get a lot of attention from them–but a very strong D3 candidate. My sense was that Ivy wants somewhat close to a D1 powerhouse but has the added challenge of finding someone who is simultaneously good academically. There may be extremely small compromises made if the academics are strong. The compromises are not significant though is the feedback I was given and the athletics are beyond important.
At the same time, the top D3s academically took a lot more interest in my academics. I’m sure they are significant issues with Harvard, Princeton, and Yale, but someone has to be very recruitable athletically first. It’s sheer speculation and perhaps a waste of debate, but I felt like academics was taken much more seriously at MIT, Carnegie Mellon, and several of the other top D3s.
On the flip side, because some of the top D3s are test optional, that takes some weight off the ACT-SAT. A good ACT-SAT, nonetheless, can help compromise for a less than excellent GPA, but without a less than excellent test score an excellent GPA is needed.
I have to say also, there are cases where the recruit believes that the coach has made an offer, applies ED and is rejected.Check out Haverford if you don’t believe me. And which Nescac? Trinity is a lot different from Williams.
I just can’t imagine those ACTs being accepted for the most part . You are going to give a lot of people false hope. The only other way I can see those scores going anywhere is with another “hook” like first generation, URM,or low socioeconomic status.
An additional note regarding football - position and size matters.
First - coaches will play you were they need/want to - regardless of discussions during recruiting - so be open
Second - skill positions have many, many more players in the pool versus O line…DLine only slightly larger pool than OLine.
The Oline at Ivy is D1 size, Patriot league - just about the same and depends on run versus pass scheme - If your player is 6’3 or over 260, mobile-enough and has very good grades - NESCAC is close to a sure thing.
I loved NESCAC schools and coaches - but game day and level of competition is less than Ivy, Patriot - one of my sons who stayed over at one NESCAC - and heavily recruited by others said he couldn’t get over that football was “less than high school” - a junior in HS’s perspective who was use to very competitive NJ football - My other son liked the balance between academics, social life and football (Yale succinctly said, “you can pick 2 not 3” - which is absolutely true.
Tight ends, receivers, Dbacks - super competitive and size and speed numbers make selection - really elimination very easy - If you have aspirations to play football at any of these levels - know your numbers - Just as grades are mentioned above as straight forward criteria for admissions - coaches filter and rank based on numbers. Numbers, tape and eye ball test
@fbdad2021 Please forgive my ignorance, I am new to this. I’m trying to understand your comment:
“Second - skill positions have many, many more players in the pool versus O line…DLine only slightly larger pool than OLine. The Oline at Ivy is D1 size, Patriot league - just about the same and depends on run versus pass scheme - If your player is 6’3 or over 260, mobile-enough and has very good grades - NESCAC is close to a sure thing.”
Are you saying that a solid O or D line athlete with good grades/test scores and that is 6’3" or 260+ has a good chance of NESCAC recruitment because there is less competition?
@HMom16, I’m not @fbdad2021, but I will say the devil is in the details. Note the reference to “mobile enough”. Size alone will not get a lineman recruited in the NESCAC or Ivy, anymore than straight line speed alone will get a dback or running back recruited. It is probably fair to say that there are minimum size thresholds to play “in the box”. In the Ivy, for o lineman I believe those thresholds are a legit 6’2" and a frame that can comfortably handle a playing weight of 275 or so. In the NESCAC, those thresholds are probably closer to 6’0" and maybe 255. From there though, each potential recruit will be judged on athleticism, how his feet move, his “bend”, hand, hips, etc. in other words, is he “mobile enough” to play at his presumptive size given the speed and violence of the particular level of the school. There are lots of kids who can check either the size or athleticism box. The trick is finding the ones who check both.
Ohiodad51 - in my experience also depends on a couple other issues as well:
- the O&D schemes being used by the program. Son is academically and athletically qualified for NESCAC level and currently has slot offers and admission support for a couple of the Maine schools and one of the Claremont programs for 2018 (have left exact names out since he is still deciding). Schools that seemed most interested were those who could see him as a candidate for more positions on the field - a 3/3/5 defense needs more DBs than other schemes, a 4/3/4 more down linemen, etc. My suggestion would be to look at game film that most schools have available on their websites to learn their schemes and focus more on the ones that are going to be a match for your skills and the schemes your HS program has run. Not much you can do about this but be realistic. A school may be a perfect fit academically and socially but if you are a triple option QB and they run a Mike Leach air raid offense it’s going to be a tough sell.
- also realize that especially in the NESCAC with 75 man roster restrictions they are really only 3 deep in most positions. If they have lot of players returning at a position they aren’t going to recruit you, period. We had one coach tell us he had so many WR’s returning he would only take one, maybe (fortunately son doesn’t play that position). Again, nothing you can do about this except research rosters which are all online and see where the opportunities are.