For biglaw jobs: better to be below median at HYS or top 30% at lower t-14 schools?

<p>Leaving Cravath, or a similarly situated firm, as an associate with a big book of business is very unlikely.</p>

<p>Yeah, I’ve never heard of a large institutional client following an associate to another firm.</p>

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<p>I said a “good” book of business, not a big one. I know many Cravath associates who lateraled out to lower ranked firms and made partner relatively quickly. Yes, you won’t drag IBM with you to your new firm, but you will probably drag whatever book you made on your own. And that book might be enough to make you partner at the lower ranked firm.</p>

<p>So you know many who did it, but how common is this practice really?</p>

<p>Why 30%? DS is entering 2L year and his school’s placement office has already begun sending out notices for interview schedules for some clerkships and a few biglaw firms in NYC for next summer. Interviews are limited to students in the top 10% or 25%.</p>

<p>Don’t the firms require nonsolicitation agreements? Pretty basic protection. </p>

<p>Our Fortune company wouldn’t follow an associate anyway. Associates are a dime-a-dozen.</p>

<p>When a lawyer takes business, the bond needs to be strong enough that when he/she announces the departure, the clients ask to continue with the representation. Obviously, this is stretched on occasion, but nothing can be done to stop the client from going with the attorney. I think it is rare that an associate would build any book of business at a firm like Cravath. Most associates don’t have enough client to have that bond.</p>

<p>Neonzeus, where is your S’s law school ranked that only the top 10%/25% are getting interviews from biglaw firms?</p>

<p>I mention 30% because I’ve seen it discussed on TLS as being a cutoff. It’s also “3rd decile” if you go by increments of 10%.</p>

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<p>I’m pretty sure these are generally unenforceable against lawyers; for states that have adopted the model code, I think rule 5.6(a) would prohibit such an agreement. And if the firm’s relationship with a client deteriorates to the point where they can only hope to retain them by getting an injunction against a former associate, I think they’re probably going to lose that client’s business anyway.</p>

<p>It’s also sometimes the clients who ask a senior associate/partner to find another firm. I know one very senior associate who left a biglaw firm for partnership at a smaller firm with significantly lower rates because his clients were small companies that couldn’t justify paying biglaw fees. But he wouldn’t have been able to make partner at a lower-ranked biglaw firm, since their rates are pretty much the same.</p>

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<p>nonzeus, do you mean that this is determined by the school’s CDO, or by the firms? This is not how it works with the NY firms with which I’m familiar. Anyone is welcome to apply for an OCI, then the firms make the decision as to whom they will offer a first round interview.</p>

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<p>At low-ranking schools, firms will generally set rank cutoffs below which they will not even consider a student for a first-round interview. These cutoffs are coming from the firms, but the schools accommodate them. By contrast, top schools usually won’t let firms publish cutoffs and have to interview whoever signs up (there’s usually some kind of lottery system that awards interview slots based on where students rank the firms and availability).</p>

<p>One of the schools is near the top of the “2nd” tier (ranked 50-100). These are good regional schools, but aren’t T1-14. </p>

<p>Of course, getting interviews doesn’t mean job offers will follow. One wonders if the firms ■■■■■ for that son-of-CEO, daughter of multi-millionaire, niece of a Prime Minister, former pageant winner or Olymic medalist…associates who bring something to the firm besides just being a law student with good grades. If they conduct so many interviews across so many law schools, one wonders at the actual hiring decisions.</p>

<p>depends on where the schools are located.</p>

<p>I have not found the biglaw firms to be easily swayed by connections. Someone may get a courtesy interview, but if they don’t have the brain power and some semblance of a personality, then it may well go nowhere. Obviously, there are exceptions. Associates are generally there for one reason - to produce lots of work of a quality high enough to be billed out.</p>

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<p>I agree with you, cartera. Biglaw firms are not going to hire someone who is ‘connected’ simply because of that fact, if they would not otherwise be a competitive candidate. It just doesn’t happen.</p>

<p>It’s interesting that some firms are utilizing cutoffs for OCIs at some schools. The U.S. firms that come to Canadian law schools don’t do this, but that could be because Canadian schools are all relatively equal, unlike the tiered system in the U.S.</p>

<p>“I think it is rare that an associate would build any book of business at a firm like Cravath. Most associates don’t have enough client contact to have that bond.”</p>

<p>Strongly agree with this. There are some practice areas where big firms may have some smaller clients who get to know associates – T&E, family, sometimes bankruptcy. But not in the big ticket areas. How in the world a Cravath associate would have the time to go out and build his own book while he’s billing 2600 hours a year on his partners’ clients is a mystery to me. I haven’t seen it, ever.</p>

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<p>I would agree with you if I didn’t know so many Cravath laterals at another firm that basically lateraled into partnership.</p>

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<p>Not so sure about this. While juniors and midlevels might not have client contact, I bet seniors do. I also bet there’s a business development budget for just that purpose. By your reasoning, an associate would never make partner at Cravath, yet many do. I’m sure some of those who didn’t make the cut still have something of a book, and I’m sure they can carry a portion of it with their careers at other firms.</p>