For medicine, is there really a need to attend a private university for all four years?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>Even though I got accepted to a few great (OOS) private schools so far, my parents are trying to convince me to attend my local rollings admissions public university (10 minutes away from my house). I have 89 hours of college credit, so I could graduate in 2 years (although 3 is probably what I'm going to aim for). Money is not the issue here. Although financial aid packages have not arrived, my EFC is 0, and the schools I got accepted to are all pretty generous. I also would have enough merit aid + stipend at the public school so that I wouldn't have to pay anything at all. A lot of what they are saying makes sense, but part of me is still very conflicted (I realize I still have more than a month to decide). What do you guys think?</p>

<p>My arguments:
- I want a "world-class education."
- I feel like I wouldn't have space to grow too much as a person because a lot of people from my high school would be attending that school. I would be limited to the way I was in high school (which isn't bad; but I feel like I would want to change and grow up a lot).
- Petty reason, but I also want to go to a school that my relatives in my home country would actually have heard of...
- I wouldn't be at the top of this particular public university. There are more prestigious programs that this university offers and I'm not in any of them (partly because I want the advantage of shortening my time there).
- I'm not 100% set on medicine (if I went to the public school, medicine would be my only option).</p>

<p>My parents' arguments:
- I'm aiming for an in-state medical school (cheaper, top 25 ranking). They (are obligated to) take a lot of people from that public school (which is actually an increasingly renowned school).
- Why would I waste 1-2 more years when I can finish college in 3 years?
- The professors at the public university are pretty much as notable in their fields as the ones at any private university. Also, the whole point of my undergrad career is to prepare me for med school, and I can do that perfectly fine at the public school.
- There's no reason why I shouldn't be 100% set on medicine. While law and medicine are both great professions, I have more science and research experience and lean heavily towards medicine. Why do I need more options? More options isn't necessarily good. I can't go wrong with medicine.
- Going far away for school is risky because I have to be on an airplane a lot and it's just very inconvenient and potentially life-threatening. Sure, I could get into a car accident in-state, but people don't generally die from car accidents (my mom has been in 3, and she hasn't even gotten hurt once), whereas if the plane crashes, I'm probably going to die. (I think the incidents with Malaysian Air and Korean Air are freaking them out. This is actually kind of a valid reason though lol.)
- Even though our EFC is 0, we would still have to pay SOMETHING and probably take on a bit of loans. Why would we do that when we can achieve the same things while paying practically nothing?</p>

<p>Sorry, this is really long. I feel like my parents' reasons are incredibly practical and reasonable, and it's not like they're not willing to listen to me at all and vice versa. I'm still seriously considering the public school. I just want to know what others think and make sure that I'm making the right decision.</p>

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<p>Can you elaborate? Neither medicine or law require you to be in a specific major, and most publics are large enough to offer a wide range of majors, so I’m having a hard time understanding why your IS public would be so restrictive.</p>

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Absolutely not. They are obligated to take state residents from your state but they have absolutely no obligation to take alumni of any particular school.</p>

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<p>You must be joking on the plane crash. Plane travel is one of the safest ways to travel. You have a higher chance of dying riding a car than a plane.</p>

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<p>People whom you’ll never see after first week of orientation. (Unless you want to see them.)</p>

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<p>Thanks for all your responses!</p>

<p>@entomom
Well I wouldn’t be 100% restricted, but I feel like prestige of undergrad matters way less for medicine. Also, if I were to go into law or something, I think going to an OOS with a great program would be better? Also, if I were to go into anything other than medicine (which, honestly, I’m pretty unsure about because I have very limited clinical experiences. One of my goals this summer is to shadow a physician and maybe even see what it’s like being a lawyer or another profession), wouldn’t going to a more prestigious undergrad connect me to more resources, networking, give me a better shot at success, etc?</p>

<p>@i<em>wanna</em>be_Brown
But historically, they’ve always taken a lot of people from that school. And all my other schools are OOS anyway.</p>

<p>@Bouncer
Yeah. I know. But at least I have control over the car I’m driving. </p>

<p>@WayOutWestMom
It’s a pretty small school, actually. But yeah I see what you’re saying!</p>

<p>So are you guys leaning towards the public U?</p>

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<p>This post reminds me that when DS was a senior in high school (he was admitted SCEA), he said to us that if he chooses to attend the in-state college, all his efforts in high school are ‘wasted’. Not a very good argument, but it was a nice try on his part. We knew right at that moment that his heart had been on that college, likely due to the reason in OP’s third argument (the petty one.)</p>

<p>A few comments first:</p>

<p>It is generally a disadvantage to graduate early from college when applying to med school. So, if you do go to your in-state public, do not graduate early IMHO. (Also, med school is not as much fun as the college!)</p>

<p>Like iwbb posted, you are still a resident of your parents’ state even if you go OOS for college.</p>

<p>Another reason that may not be mentioned by either you or your parents: Your parents may prefer that you do not go far away for college. Many parents have this “secret” wish - esp. for their D. If you go OOS, it increases your chance that you may stay OOS after you graduate from college - especially if your boyfriend you meet in college happens to be from another state.</p>

<p>Compared to your family’s case, our EFC was not even zero. Actually, he was a full pay student for his first two years in college because this was before “the middle class initiative” for these colleges. We filled out the financial aid application (called Need Access) recently. There is a question asking about how much money the parents have had contributed accumulatively since the freshmen year in college. The number is astonishing. (It is about the price of a house in many areas in the country!)</p>

<p>Since OP’s EFC is zero, some private colleges that do not “gap” may be really cheap for OP.</p>

<p>We still do not know whether attending a private college is the right move because we believe it is likely DS could still manage to get into a med school even if he had gone to an in-state public. (It is less likely that he may end up at his current med school due to the “incest”/“inbred” phenomenon at many of these schools.) But we did not know whether he would go into this career track at all back then.</p>

<p>But it seems that DS himself was happy then and is happy now, mostly at his parents’ dime, LOL. (He called recently and told us he is going to spend more money on some exams - I guess it is likely STEP-2 CK and CS. He may need to fly to somewhere to take the latter one, as there are likely only half a dozen test centers in the country.)</p>

<p>To OP, you will likely need to fly a lot before you become a practicing doctor if you are on this career track! I heard of some “horror” story that some students may even apply to over 100 residency programs all over the country. For some specialty where there are only a couple of hundreds slots for the whole country, you just go wherever they take you.</p>

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<p>@mcat2
Thank you for sharing your comments and experiences!</p>

<p>I have a question - “Since OP’s EFC is zero, some private colleges that do not “gap” may be really cheap for OP.”
What does it mean to “gap”?</p>

<p>And also, what are the disadvantages of graduating early? Many BS/MD programs are accelerated. (My parents are leaning toward the public school because they think we can achieve a similar effect as a BS/MD program.)</p>

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<p>This disadvantage is time- you will not have the same amount of time to develop long term relationships with profs, with research PI’s, etc. You will will have to work harder to get long term commitments in volunteering, clinical experience, shadowing, and research that other pre-meds will have (and you still won’t be able to do 3 or 4 years doing X simply because you won’t be there for 3 or 4 years). The longer you spend in something, the more responsibility and skills are often developed as well (especially in research). You will want to show leadership skills as well if possible. Can you do all this in 3 years vs. 4? Possibly. But others will be doing more and taking more advanced classes or classes in other areas during their 4 years. You will be up against these premeds and their accomplishments.</p>

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<p>“Gap” in financial aid means that the college is not a truly need-based college.</p>

<p>The way the financial aid works is like this: The school decides what the COA (cost of attendance) is. COA includes every cost, including living expenses, travel cost, etc., as well as tuitions and fees. The school (not FAFSA!) then decides how much each parties should contribute: the school (then it’s need-based or merit-based scholarship), parents, and the students (summer work and “work study” while the school is in session.) Outside scholarship can also be a contribution (which may or may not reduce parents’ share of contribution.)</p>

<p>The contribution from parents can be from their current income, their previous income (assets) or future income (loans). The contributions from the student can also be from the same sources (esp., the future income, i.e., the loans, as the student usually does not have much other resources.)</p>

<p>If the sum of all the contributions in the financial aid “award” is less than the COA, the difference is the gap. It is expected the family will need to come up with the money to fill this gap - potentially the school will not help you even to get the loans (or they help you to get loans with a bad deal - if they do not get the “favor” from the loan companies, you should be happy already) to fill this gap. If there is no gap, the school is a truly need-based school.</p>

<p>Please note that all financial aid awards are not created equal. All forms of loans in the award letter should not be interpreted as awards, because they just help you to get loans which you often can get it by yourself. It is said that even Bill Gates can get such loans if he wants to.</p>

<p>For example, I believe HYPS do not have the gap. It is also advertised that if your family annual income is below around 65K, there is no parents’ contribution requires. But the asset of the family should not be large either. This is because a certain percentage of the assets will be treated as if they were income. This is why I said that it will be very cheap for a student from a poor family to attend such a college: They even pay for their living expenses!</p>

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You misunderstand two things. One, going OOS for college will not turn you into an OOS applicant for medical school. Two, the reason they take a lot of people from that school is because I would imagine a lot of IS people go to that school, no? My point is that going OOS will not hurt your chances for medical school. You think this school is turning down grads of ivy leagues and their equivalents who grew up in your state because they have an obligation to accept the state school alumni? No. False.</p>

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<p>You need to attend ANY UG that you personally prefer for the following reasons:

  • I want a “world-class education.” - it is up to YOU ENTIRELY, and not the place if you get a “world-class education.” or you get crap for your money and time.
  • I feel like I wouldn’t have space to grow too much as a person . -You should have a goal of growing up as a person. I am very happy to see a great maturiry in this point. However, you absolutely do not need to stick only to a certain crowd. Again, it is up to YOU ENTIRELY, how you spend your free time and with who. I believe that anybody who identify this as one of the goal of UG (great kuddos again for that) will seek all opportunities in this area. In fact, my own D. ended up at UG that was the most popular with the graduates of her HS over many years.
  • Petty reason, but I also want to go to a school that my relatives in my home country would actually have heard of…- Cannot answer / relate to this, as you have identified it as a “petty” reason, which I totally agree with
  • I wouldn’t be at the top of this particular public university… - There is NO advantage of shortenning your time in UG. Again, based on D’s experience, she has an opportunity to be in UG for only 2 years (accepted to accelerated bs/md) which she turned down specifically for the fact that it is way too short, too cramped and would not allow enough time to properly mature as a person. Yes, I completely disagree with “Why would I waste 1-2 more years when I can finish college in 3 years?”, it is NOT waste of time at all in my mind. You still will be one of the youngest at Med. School. There is NO reason to rush at all, take your time and also make sure to enjoy your summers, spend them with your friends, you will be very very sorry if you do not do it during UG. Med. School has only one summer off which most spend doing research any way.</p>
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<p>What do you mean by a “world-class education”? You can get a fantastic education at a state school, especially if this school is “an increasingly renowned school.”</p>

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<p>How big is the school? You likely won’t see those people ever again, unless you actively seek them out. I went to a state school and never saw anyone from my high school after the first week of school. There will be many other students that you can spend time with, and you will change and grow regardless of where you go.</p>

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<p>It sucks to go to a school that no one has ever heard of, or that you feel you have to defend every time you mention it. But I don’t think that’s a good enough reason to base your decision on.</p>

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<p>What do you mean “you wouldn’t be at the top”? Do you mean that you would get a lower GPA? Or do you mean that your program just isn’t considered the most difficult or most impressive at this school?</p>

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<p>Of course, you would have other options. Don’t be ridiculous. Where do other grads from this school go? They can’t possible have medicine or burger flipper as their only options.</p>

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<p>No, they’re not.</p>

<p>But, to be honest, going to a cheaper, higher ranked medical school is a really good situation to be in. If this medical school historically takes a lot of students from your school, then that’s a good thing, but I don’t know if I would base your whole decision around that. A lot can change between now and then.</p>

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<p>Because you have much more access to resources as an undergraduate than as a college grad. It’s often easier to get volunteering experience in hospitals, research experience in labs/hospitals, and other valuable internship experience. College isn’t just about classes. It’s also about getting the experience you need to pursue whatever career you want to pursue. It may be better to take a lighter load of courses to get more research or clinical or volunteering experience. Perhaps you could do an honors thesis if you stay that extra year or get your name on a publication. Maybe you could get more hands-on clinical experience, or perhaps you could serve as a TA or tutor. You may be able to take more advanced classes that can help you to better prepare for medical school, and you will definitely be able to get more valuable experience.</p>

<p>If you have merit aid + stipend, why not stay the extra year? Would you have to take out loans for the fourth year? Finances is a good reason to graduate early, but I generally recommend students to a gap year as well if they graduate early to get more experience, unless you are already a strong applicant. Applying to medical schools is lots of work and you only want to do it once.</p>

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<p>Don’t go into medicine just because your parents want you to. Medicine is a long, difficult road, and you should only do it if you want to. It’s not for everyone, and there’s no shame in wanting to do something else. I don’t understand, though, why you wouldn’t be able to do anything else graduating from a state school.</p>

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<p>Oy, that’s just ridiculous. The odds of an average American dying in a plane crash is 1 in 11 million. The odds of dying in a car crash is 1 in 5,000. For every 100 million passenger miles, there are 0.01 deaths on an airplane and 0.72 deaths in a car–not just accidents, actual deaths. Over the very few accidents in planes, 96% survive.</p>

<p>Yes, more plane rides is something to consider mainly because it’s more expensive, not because of whatever fear you have of plane crashes. </p>

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<p>What would you have to pay at these other schools? How many loans would you have to take out. If it’s reasonable, then it may be okay, if these other schools are schools you really want to go to for valid reasons, not misconceptions or perceived benefits. But keep in mind, if you do go to medical school, you’ll likely take out a very significant amount of loans. You don’t want to keep piling these on top of each other if you don’t have to.</p>

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<p><<<
Money is not the issue here. Although financial aid packages have not arrived, my EFC is 0,
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<p>Unless those schools promise to meet need, just being generous may not be enough. The schools may cost 60k per year and generously give you $45k (( a lot of money)…so where would you get the other $15k?</p>

<p>Unless the school promises to meet need, then those with 0 EFC’s often get big gaps because their need is too great.</p>

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<p>Living at home is cheaper and may be a big reason your parents want you at home. Could you be an RA somewhere else and get free housing or something?</p>

<p>Also, it depends on the public, my niece went to UCSB, graduated from medical school and is awaiting her match for her surgery residency today. </p>

<p>Thirdly, the cost of ANY in state public is likely to be lower for you, and perhaps if you can think of something for housing, your family would be ok with you going to a public a little farther away so you didn’t have to commute from home. I sympathize, even back in the dark ages I picked a college far enough away I couldn’t live at home – even if I drove there most weekends to do laundry…</p>

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<p>Wait until the financial aid offers come so that you can compare costs.</p>

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<p>For my top choice, my parents have to pay ~$12.8k (including loans) a year, while the cost is at MOST $2.5k a year (probably for 3 years) at the public school. </p>

<p>The cost difference is HUGE (around $44.5k over my entire undergraduate career). The thing is, if money was the only thing I’m considering, then I would go to the public school for sure - cheaper overall AND I get to start making a salary a year early AKA a (HUGE) net financial gain.</p>

<p>The fact that emotions are involved is what makes this decision really hard. It’s also a huge risk to go the private route because what if I end up somehow messing up and not getting the fullest experience I possibly can? That’s a huge waste of money!</p>

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<p>If you have all the money in the world and can afford any college then go ahead to attend the dream school. But since you are EFC 0 you should conserve and plan for the future whether the future is medicine or not depends on how well you do in the college. Med schools are expensive, if you go that route you will be take out more loans in the med school and it will difficult to pay the loans back. </p>

<p>I know some md who owed 550k in student loans and still live in a rental apartment. </p>

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<p>Yeah, that’s the issue. My parents are telling me not to worry about money, but it’s hard not to. I told them that I wouldn’t go the private route if it means things like discontinuing my younger brother’s soccer or art classes, and they said that it wouldn’t come to that. I mean, we can afford it, but it’s a bit challenging especially if we also consider the cost of medical school. The school I’m aiming for is our in-state medical school (ranked 20something) - the tuition is currently $16.5k a year. </p>

<p>To give you a clearer idea, right now my family of 4 (my brother is in grade school) has around a $60k income, but it’s expected to increase to $80-100k in the next couple of years or so, which would, of course, decrease my financial aid award. Which makes me wonder what the point is of making more money if all the money is just going to the college… </p>

<p>What do you think? Is the private route doable/worth it? Or should I just go the public route so that my family is actually able to KEEP all the money we make.</p>

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<p>I don’t really want to get into a discussion of your parents’ finances, but if they are telling you that they won’t have to make any sacrifices to send you to the private school (or any sacrifices that they feel are worth sending you to this school - e.g. going on a cheaper vacation, not something like making your brother stop an activity) then you shouldn’t worry about the cost of the school. That’s not to say you should or shouldn’t go to the private school, but if they are making it clear that finances aren’t a concern then they aren’t a concern.</p>