<p>I wouldn't say that pursuing a college degree is the only way to become well educated, but it's probably the easiest way. </p>
<p>I've come across many people who are surprised that I never attended college because I speak and write well and I try to keep informed on current issues. But it still did involve thousands of hours with my nose in various books, not all of which were particularly fascinating, but all of which added to my education in one way or another.</p>
<p>The writer of the piece is the (in)famous Charles Murray, author of The Bell Curve: [Charles</a> Murray](<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Murray_(author%5DCharles">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Murray_(author)</p>
<p>I have posted this from time-to-time. It is a talk given by the occupational sociologist Andrew Abbott; it is a very worthwhile read. Here is one of my favorite quotes from the article:
[quote]
The long and the short of it is that there is no instrumental reason to get an education, to study in your courses, or to pick a concentration and lose yourself in it. It won’t get you anything you won’t get anyway or get some other way. So forget everything you ever thought about all these instrumental reasons for getting an education. The reason for getting an education is that it is better to be educated than not to be.</p>
<p>The reason for getting an education here—or anywhere else—is that it is better in and of itself. Not because it gets you something. Not because it is a means to some other end. It is better because it is better. Indeed this statement implies that the phrase “aims of education” is nonsensical; education is not a thing of which aims can be predicated. It has no aim other than itself.
[/quote]
<p>
[quote]
"Outside a handful of majors -- engineering and some of the sciences -- a bachelor's degree tells an employer nothing except that the applicant has a certain amount of intellectual ability and perseverance. Even a degree in a vocational major like business administration can mean anything from a solid base of knowledge to four years of barely remembered gut courses.</p>
<p>The solution is not better degrees, but no degrees. Young people entering the job market should have a known, trusted measure of their qualifications they can carry into job interviews. That measure should express what they know, not where they learned it or how long it took them. They need a certification, not a degree."
[/quote]
Absolutely true. The credentialism in our economy is downright disturbing.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The reason for getting an education here—or anywhere else—is that it is better in and of itself. Not because it gets you something. Not because it is a means to some other end. It is better because it is better. Indeed this statement implies that the phrase “aims of education” is nonsensical; education is not a thing of which aims can be predicated. It has no aim other than itself.
[/quote]
Education might be the end goal, but the negatives are certainly huge (ie: costing a lot of money). And regardless, one can get an education anywhere. Colleges supply a piece of paper. Some of the most knowledgeable people I know did it all on their own without any degree.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But I also think four years pursuing the bachelor's is just totally necessary for becoming a truly educated member of society.
[/quote]
Is that a joke? You think that going to 4 years of drinking school is required to be a truly educated member of society?</p>
<p>Mr Payne: In the article Abbott suggests not only that many of the so-called skills and knowledge obtained in college could probably be attained just as well elsewhere, but also that there is little evidence college is responsible for most of them. What Abbott is suggesting is that education is something that can be attained at a college (and it is not about a skill set), but only if one makes the commitment to do so.</p>
<p>Abbott is saying that an education can be gotten anywhere (for free, really), but one gets the privilege of spending 40K/year to get it at a university.</p>
<p>There's certainly no requirement to spend $40K per year. Certainly not going to happen in our family. We're shooting for under $15K a year and I think that's very doable.</p>
<p>In college, you learn a lot of things that you probably don't want to (you have to at least sit through the classes), you meet people outside your neighborhood peer group, you get opportunities in a variety of extracurriculars, you live away from home, you get to use expensive lab equipment that you otherwise wouldn't have a chance at, you may get involved in research, you have access to research databases and you get to see how a large organization is run.</p>
<p>And then there's your major and the core that goes along with it.</p>
<p>Does it necessarily prepare you well for the job market. Sometimes not. But it should help to provide you with a wide variety of opportunities that you otherwise didn't have.</p>
<p>Yes, making a living is important for most people. But it isn't the only thing and measuring college by only one metric makes for great headlines but we're after educated people; not just simply expensive job training.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There's certainly no requirement to spend $40K per year. Certainly not going to happen in our family. We're shooting for under $15K a year and I think that's very doable.
[/quote]
Educating an American costs 40k/year. You might not see the whole bill, but that's what it costs.</p>
<p>That's interesting. Where'd you find that figure?</p>
<p>My wise recently deceased father-in-law once said something like: "You don't necessarily go to college to get a better job, but to become a better person."</p>
<p>Just another example of his "hitting the nail on the head."</p>
<p>Murray is right that much of what is done in education is done because we've always done it that way. The biggest change in K-12 education in the past 50 years has been renaming junior high schools 'middle schools'. AP test results reveal that many students are capable of college level work before they reach their senior, or even junior year in HS. Between those kids and those who have dropped out or tuned out, are 13 years of secondary education really needed? Are 4 years of college needed? Would 3 years do just as well? What are the pros and cons of such changes?</p>
<p>We still have junior high schools here...it depends on the school district. So how much change has there really been, other than to screw up the curriculum with new teaching methods that may or may not work.</p>
<p>Our local district has implemented software systems that provide for more information to parents and parents that use it seem to like it quite a bit. But we have many parents that aren't computer-literate so the benefit doesn't help them.</p>
<p>One of my coworkers (his wife is on the school board) basically said that one of the most important parts of parenting kids in school is making sure that their time is occupied between the time when school lets out until they get home from work. As kids can get into quite a bit of trouble during that time unsupervised. We expect our schools to do more and more for us and I think that's changed. When I was growing up, there was typically a parent at home during the day to provide guidance, support and supervision for kids. These parents could also volunteer in the schools. There are still many places like this but it is much less a choice for parents today overall.</p>
<p>It's a choice we made. It's been kind of tough in our extremely affluent school district to be a one wage-earner, blue collar family but I think it's been worth it.</p>
<p>You go to college to get an education, the measure of its worth is intangible; getting a high paying job, earning a lot of money is totally irrelevent to the worth of spending time at a 4 year college/university. No one can ever take away your education, you can gain and lose jobs and money. I've noticed too much concentration on business principles applied to going to college- life isn't about making money, the quality matters and the ideas one doesn't get anywhere else.</p>
<p>Excellent point by the original article.</p>
<p>One non-monetary area where a college degree helps is in raising and educating your children. You know more about the process, more about how to work the system, whether enrichment is useful or not and the process of learning itself.</p>
<p>I truly believe that a college education is absolutely valuable to some but not all. I recently chatted with a flight attendant who spent 6 years at college to obtain a bachelors and a masters in social work. She worked out in the field for 3 years after that and simply HATED it!!!</p>
<p>She has been flying for an airline for 4 years and could have obtained the job without 1 day of college. She is still paying back student loans. Some may say that the personnel skills or education that she received in college helped her get the job, but it was actually the experience that she gained from being a waitress, dealing with customer service issues that they were intersted in. She started as an entry level flight attendant with 0 seniority just like my 20 year old son will be with a certificate from a cc for Airline and Travel Careers!</p>
<p>If a family has the money to fund a 4 or 6 year education or the student is able to receive scholarships or grants and it does not financially devastate the family, I say, absolutely....go for it!!</p>
<p>I do, however, (having a recent hs graduate who is attending a cc)hear a lot of reports from kids about "how many parties there are", or "how it sucks to go to classes", or "how can I reduce my course load below 12 credits", "how can I schedule classes that are only after 12:00 noon", or "dude, you need to hurry up and get your AA so that you can get here to this party scene"!!!!</p>
<p>What is that all about? The colleges that we visited this summer stated that close to 80% of college students go in "undeclared". </p>
<p>I say it is an AWFUL lot of money to commit if there is not a lot of "heart and soul" in this whole process on the part of the college student. I personally do not want to contribute even $15,000 a year for a "stab at a degree and a party"!!!!</p>