For Most People, College is a Waste of Time

Parents Forum
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She has been flying for an airline for 4 years and could have obtained the job without 1 day of college. She is still paying back student loans. Some may say that the personnel skills or education that she received in college helped her get the job, but it was actually the experience that she gained from being a waitress, dealing with customer service issues that they were intersted in. She started as an entry level flight attendant with 0 seniority just like my 20 year old son will be with a certificate from a cc for Airline and Travel Careers!

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<p>I know someone who had a graduate degree and after failing to make money his own business he tried out being a flight attendant. He enjoyed it for several months, saw some nice places, but realized that he wasn't making enough money and that he did not want to share hotel rooms with other flight attendants and lead this life forever. He fell back on his graduate degree and is making a living by teaching in cc!</p>

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<p>From Today's NYT Travel section: The average flight attendant salary today is around $33,500 a year. <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/travel/14Airline.html?pagewanted=3&_r=1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/travel/14Airline.html?pagewanted=3&_r=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Microsoft is looking for Windows Gurus to help sell PCs with Vista in Best Buy stores. They are paying $20 or more per hour. I guess that this is their response to Apple's Genius Bar. My guess is that they would value Microsoft Certification Training far higher than a four-year degree.</p>

<p>Microsoft</a> Windows Retail Live - Innovate, Educate, Inspire.</p>

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<p>csleslie51....and how much does an average teacher or secretary/administrative assistant make? And do they only work an average of 10 days a month and have full benefits? I know many college graduates that would LOVE to making $33,500 a year, but are instead living at home with mom and dad still looking for a job!</p>

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<p>I don't think college is merely a means to an end (ie a job or even a degree). It's a once in a lifetime experience, to meet people from other places, live in close quarters with them, explore intellectual ideas... it's probably the 4 years of your life where you're most free to find out who you really are and what you really want to do with your life. It's a time of growth, away from home but still in a semi-sheltered environment. </p>

<p>If I merely viewed college as a means to a job, I wouldn't be paying $45k/year for my kid to go there. He'd be commuting to local state univ. But I am paying for him to have this experience, for four years, that will have a large part in shaping who he becomes as an adult.</p>

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<p>Look at the studies put out every year regarding career earning capacities. Plus the more educated we are as a society the better off we are and less likely we are to be fooled as a society by our leaders in DC who exploit people's ignorance.</p>

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<p>Just reread the title and here's another thought- most people DON'T go to college. Only around 25% of adults in this country have even a bachelor's degree. Most people live their lives without it, some who have degrees shouldn't have bothered, some who never went should have. I suspect that where you live determines the attitudes and pressures to attend a 4 year college- based on my experiences in different Wisconsin cities. Also keep in mind the CC crowd is self selected.</p>

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<p>I wholly reject the notion that the business community or its advocates should dictate what is taught to our children.</p>

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<p>I haven't read all the posts, but I'm pretty sure I'm going out on the limb here when I say that I agree with some of the points made. I know too many kids who've just gotten their BAs and are pretty much qualified to do...not much. And these are good, smart kids. Some of them are waiting to go to grad school for the advanced degrees necessary for their fields. But many are just casting about with no training, no real-world skills. I know that the four years of college is invaluable for many, and that it serves to broaden minds and horizons, but shouldn't one come out of it qualified for a trade, or a field of work or a craft or a direction? </p>

<p>In opposition to the writer, though, I believe that there should be better degrees rather than no degrees. I like the idea of certification in an area of work. Or being an apprentice. I also think that many kids are in college who be better off doing one of the above, better served, have a better chance of finding their passion, etc. The writer opened a Pandora's box, but there are a lot of interesting ideas to come out of it. </p>

<p>The work I've done for most of my life, I got a lot of instruction in at college, but I didn't really need the rest of what I got there. Give me the instruction and a year of community service and a year taking care of sea turtles in Greece, and then put me out there to do what I was trained to do. I really like that idea!</p>

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<p>Sometimes when an employer has a job opening and wants to hire someone with a bachelor's degree, what he wants is someone who has shown four years of being responsible enough to get to class and turn in assignments and meet requirements needed for graduation. It is that fact, rather than the contents of the student's major, that has the employer hoping for someone with "a degree," whether it is in English or psycho or anthro or art history.</p>

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<p>There are a lot of very good positions in job market that regire at least a bachelor's and in addition prefer high GPA even if you got over 20 years of experience. It might sound silly, but it is the fact of life. Sometime, managers are not even allowed to interview candidates without degree.</p>

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<p>Oh, strongly disagree, but I guess that's what some people want in a college/university degree -- increased earning power. </p>

<p>My children have grown up being told that college was about being a well-educated member of society, able to make thoughtful decisions and participate in society. We have never stressed college as the place you go to earn more money, but more as a finishing school for character, if that makes sense. I'm old school that way. </p>

<p>In terms of earning power, my children can look at my SO, who took one quarter of classes at a CC when he was 18, but quit because what fascinated him -- computer graphics -- wasn't being taught yet in colleges he had access to. He's entirely self-taught, and does better for himself as a high end computer programmer than any I or my ex-husband did. He gets hired because of his skills, not his education. Are there jobs he doesn't get because he never got a degree? Sure. But there have been enough jobs that he's never wanted for very well-paying work. </p>

<p>Pretty much, our family doesn't equate college = earning power, and that's that.</p>

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<p>TrinSF,
I was not talking about earnig power at all. I was talking about having a job (security). My current job and many previous jobs positions required College Degree although actual job that I have to perform does not. We do not have to agree or disagree, I live in a part of country where just having a job is good, salary is very secondary. I cannot relocate, so I would be unemployed if I did not have my degree. My D and my friend both with previous job experience, applied to numerous very low paying jobs in my city. They did not get any positions. D is in college and working part time there (not in hometown), friend is babysitting.</p>

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<p>Bottom line......If we ALL adopt the idea that you HAVE To have a college degree in order to make a decent living......who will repair your car? Who will repair your plumbing or your electrical problem? Who will take your blood pressure when you go the doctors office? Who will check you out and help to bag your groceries?</p>

<p>These are just a few examples of "careers" that we depend on and don't give a second thought because WE don't want OUR sons or daughters doing THOSE jobS!!!</p>

<p>Please then don't complain that those jobs go to the immigrants or less fortunate and your kid can't get a job! Granted, some jobs or careers require a degree, but many do not. Completion of a technical program can show real motivation and determination as well.</p>

<p>My point? College is just not for everyone and if we don't recognize that and stop steering our kids to get there at any cost, there are going to be some very disappointed parents. </p>

<p>I hear a lot of "just let them follow their dreams".
What dreams? Most of these kids have NO IDEA what they are doing or want to do and just getting a degree in "ANYTHING" is a bit over the top and a lot of money spent to just say "my kid is in college". Many people in our generation did not go to college until later in life. Are we trying to live vicariously through our children? Just a thought!</p>

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<p>I believe it is a personal decision, I mean family, not just a kid. My son wanted to quit after 2 years in college in Co-op program because he realized by working in few places (Co-op is great!) that just like me he can perfectly do the same job without a degree. I let him know that I have been paying for a diploma in hands, not just going to college. Basically I pushed him financially to finish. Guess what he said after graduatiating and has been working (he is self-employed) for awhile? Big "Thank you!" for not letting him quit. I did not ask what was the reason why all of a sudden having a degree became important for him.</p>

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<p>It is a very personal decision. Look at Bill gates :)</p>

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<p>A close relative received his GED in the military. After his enlistment was up he tried several jobs and finally ended up a police officer. He spent many years at this job climbing through the ranks. At some point he thought it would be a good idea to go to college. He attended as his schedule would permit. He told me it was one of the most transformative experiences of his life. College opened his eyes to a world he never knew existed and a way of looking at people and events he had never encountered. He said it made him a better police officer, and brought an increased richness to his life. He made no more money as a result of getting a degree, but as a result insisted his kids go to college no matter what job they did afterward. In his opinion, college has a value far beyond occupation.</p>

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<p>MiamiDAP: I wasn't talking to you. I didn't even read your posts. I was responding to the original prompt. If I'm responding to you (or someone else), I say so.</p>

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<p>britbrat says: <i>What dreams? Most of these kids have NO IDEA what they are doing or want to do and just getting a degree in "ANYTHING" is a bit over the top and a lot of money spent to just say "my kid is in college". Many people in our generation did not go to college until later in life. Are we trying to live vicariously through our children? Just a thought!</i> </p>

<p>Wow. I guess I don't get exposed to any dreamless, aimless students at home. My children have had very strong ideas about their life plans from relatively young ages. My son's biggest struggle is trying to find the best educational path for the end result he wants. My daughter is <em>very</em> clear about her career and life goals, and has been since she was in second grade. While the details have changed a little in the intervening 9 years, the overarching plan has not. Every day, every step of what she does is aiming towards the end result she has in mind. </p>

<p>But that said, both of my children also understand that education isn't just about reaching an economic or career goal. My daughter doesn't take Japanese because of her career goals; she takes it because she has a passion for Japanese culture. Latin may not make my son a better psychoanalyst, but he still enjoys it, the same way he enjoys being a poet and studying other poets. </p>

<p>(Of course, I understand I may not be part of the problem anyway, since I'm not paying for my children's college educations.)</p>

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<p>idad says....A close relative received his GED in the military. After his enlistment was up he tried several jobs and finally ended up a police officer. He spent many years at this job climbing through the ranks. At some point he thought it would be a good idea to go to college. He attended as his schedule would permit.</p>

<p>My hubby did a similar thing. He had a hs diploma, but did 2 tours in Vietnam as a young man, beginning at 18, and then came out, used his GI Bill to get his pilots license. He found that noone would hire a new pilot with only 1000 hours of flight experience as they were turning people away with 10X that much flying time. He became a firefighter with no college. At the age of 45, he decided to go to college and by 50 had his masters degree.</p>

<p>Like your story, the degree did not increase his pay. To date, he has never used the degree as he retired last year with 35 years of service and a very nice pension.</p>

<p>He encourages our kids to go to college, but a degree is not always the only patch to a successful career. </p>

<p>We as adults understand that, but I think we have a generation of young people who are searching the internet and asking around for the path to the career that is going to "make bank" or "get rich"!!</p>

<p>My point is that when a college education can cost upwards to $200,000 these days, it should be carefully planned out. To the point of a Dad who I personally heard say to a Sophomore college daughter...."You had better declare a major soon, as I am not paying for a degree in Finding a Husband"!!</p>

<p>If kids are clear like my S3 and TrinSF's kids, I think college is absolutely not a waste of time, but going to college to just "get the college experience" and do nothing with it is IMO a waste of time.</p>

<p>Unlike TrinSF, my retired husband and I DO have to pay for our kids college educations, so maybe that makes a difference. :)</p>