<p>Here's a response to that original WSJ article that college ain't worth it for most people. Interesting graph showing income versus number of correctly answered questions on a mini IQ test. There are plots for people with less than a high school degree, those with a high school diploma, graduates of trade schools, those with a BA, and those with a PhD. </p>
<p>Gene</a> Expression: College is Still the Best Pay-off</p>
<p>I can see it both ways.</p>
<p>I have been telling my current 10th grader for about a year --</p>
<p>"you don't <em>have</em> to go to college. You have a choice -- start your own business, or go to college." Working a mindless job, not working, living in our house are all NOT options if you want any support from us."</p>
<p>Faced with that choice, I can't think more than 1-2% would actually start their own business.... but I secretly hope she does start a business. If she does, she will learn more in that year than any other two years in her life. If it doesn't work out, then to college with a boatload of wisdom.</p>
<p>In a way, this is the worst possible audience to address the points set forth by the WSJ article. And I mean this in a nice way. </p>
<p>Most participants on this board and their parents are relatively if not extremely high achievers. The IQ's are high, and so is the education for education's sake ethic. Parents and their offspring benefit from college. And I agree that the discipline it takes to obtain a college degree (especially from a rigorous school) helps over time considerably in employment - those same skills pay off. </p>
<p>But there's a whole different world out there than those that participate on these boards. And for them, college may not be the best aspiration. Learning a trade and employment skills may be a far better use of their skills and available resources. And if that is the import of the WSJ article, I agree with it. </p>
<p>And not to pick on a particular school or schools, but some of the non-flagship public institutions have little more than open enrollment criteria for admission, and those schools do have significant numbers of people that would likely benefit from an increased focus on vocational skills or training in lieu of fun and games at Northwestern State U. I am not sure that there is any way to address this phenomena, other than to let the labor market compel better choices.</p>
<p>mam1959 --</p>
<p>I have wondered about that choice for, let's call them, B- to C students (assuming they actually do try to get good grades).</p>
<p>There are many skills in the world beyond those of critical thinking. Some just don't have the same brain hardware as others. Yet these same people can pick up the vibe in a social situation that geniuses don't even notice. That's emotional intelligence. Should we be encouraging very average students to invest four years of their lives in an area that is not their strength? To not only spend money on this pursuit, but delay their entry into a career in which they could be progressing? To forego four years of income in the process?</p>
<p>It was a common thought in the 50s that one needed a college degree to qualify for the better paying jobs. Two things immediately come to mind 1) who says you have to work FOR somebody? Start and run your own business. 2) Was that thought true then, and is it true now?</p>
<p>John Maudlin has done a survey of several thousand millionaires on a variety of areas including level of education, attitudes about universities, education, marriage, family, how the wealth was generated, attitudes on taxes, politicians, opportunity, etc. There will also be a number of interviews to get anecdotal stories. It reminds me of The Millionaire Next Door from the mid-1990s. The book should be out sometime next year and I look forward to reading it.</p>
<p>The 1990s book had a lot of interesting stuff in it in that a lot of millionaires ran rather mundane businesses. I'd like to know if that's still the case.</p>
<p>BCEagle91 -- I am in a line of work where I advise medium sized business owners (let's say $5M - $100m annual sales). You would not believe the number of extremely rich people who own coat hangar factories, or a chain of dry cleaning establishments, or own multiple residential apartment complexes. It's just mind boggling. At least 75% of these guys do not have a college degree, and maybe 5% have professional degrees.</p>
<p>That's what the 1990s book indicated. Dry Cleaners, Laundramats, Car Washes, Gas Station chains, etc. US is the land of opportunity.</p>
<p>I haven't gone delving into the details of that Gene Expression article, or how its study data were collected. For those who didn't click through, there's a graph that shows how much people earn relative to how well they do on an IQ test. What makes this interesting is that the blogger has done separate graphs for people with different levels of education. The plots in the article show that for people with the same IQ, income goes up with level of post-highschool education.</p>
<p>Now, it might be that yes, getting more education gives you more of the skills and education that will lead you to higher paying work. But, I'm now thinking,pPart of this might be due to employers who say that in order to qualify for higher paying jobs, you need the degree. Then you have grumpy adults who go back to college to squeak by getting a degree so that they can satisfy a jumping-through-hoops requirement. </p>
<p>Hard to say, but interesting to think and argue about.</p>
<p>I think employers ought to give an applicant a ten minute test to demonstrate <em>basic</em> intelligence necessary to the particular job -- the ability to do basic math, and write a coherent paragraph for some job, coutesy and spoken coherence for others. I don't know if this is legal, but how could it be any less legal than requiring a college degree?</p>
<p>The college degree "hoop" as you mention could very well be a poor and expensive policy.</p>
<p>Human Resource departments usually screen by degree as they don't have the expertise to determine the suitability of a candidate.</p>
<p>In high-tech, you can frequently get a feel for a candidate with interviews. Schedule six to eight interviews with a few managers and engineers and they'll get a feel for the person.</p>
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<p>The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.</p>
<p>While I was a journalism student at a local community college, I started and ran my own part-time public relations consulting business from 2005 to 2007, contracted to a professional sports car racing team.</p>
<p>I traveled with the team across North America, made a bundle of money and got real-world work experience that no college classes could teach me. My personal network now includes CEOs of publicly-traded companies, top professional racing drivers, journalists of all stripes and PR managers/execs for major automakers.</p>
<p>At the end of 2007, my team won its series championship, I got my associate's degree in journalism and ended the contract so that I could transfer to a four-year university full-time and finish my BA.</p>
<p>Was I crazy?</p>
<p>I believe the value of a liberal arts education is measured in far more than dollars. A college degree doesn't just say "you know X, Y and Z," it says you've developed a broader understanding of humanity and the world we inhabit. Both of my parents have degrees - my father, a Ph.D. I would feel incomplete, unfulfilled without one.</p>
<p>It is not a question of either-or. I believe you need both a collegiate education and real-world experience to be a well-rounded person.</p>