I am a hs junior looking to finance as a possible career field. I posted a question recently in a college subforum and someone suggested I post here as there seems to be a few finance folks in this forum. I think I would like to do something in either consulting or risk management. For this field(specifically for these jobs), how much does “prestige” help/matter and does it matter if you go to an undergrad b school compared to a school for econ? Also, is it likely that you will have to go back to get an MBA down the line or is a bachelors enough today? Other posts on similar topics seem to be directed only for investment banking and I think this might be a little bit more of a general answer as IB is the most competitive and prestige driven careers. Thanks for the help!
I have degrees in Finance and Economics and have been a hiring manager for 30 years. I’ll let you in on a secret. Unless you are going to Wall St investment banking it makes absolutely ZERO difference from where you get your degree! The degree is a simply a check box. All that matters is what you do on the job. No one ever asks from where you got your degree.
A Harvard grad and a tier 3 school grad working at the same company in the same position get paid exactly the same.
My younger daughter got a double major in math and economics last year from a well-regarded liberal arts college. She worked at an economic consulting firm the summer after her junior year and was offered a permanent position (which she declined, because she decided to go in a slightly different direction with her degree). She would have been making $70,000 to $80,000. To me, that’s not shabby.
My experience is different from the above. I worked at at a large company doing consulting and found that a disproportional number of staff came from good schools. You don’t need to go to an Ivy type school but you want to go to a school/program that is solid enough to attract recruiters from a wide variety of companies who want to hire its graduates.
I agree that once you start that job your success will be tied into your performance at work, not your alma mater.
@“Iron Maiden” Even for consulting? I thought that was more prestige driven like IB. I didn’t think risk management/actuary jobs cared about college tier either but I wasn’t sure.
@happy1 How would you define “good school?” Like AACSB accreditation or top tier schools? I know after a few years it doesn’t matter as much but I’m talking more about getting the first job out of college.
IMO it is not a one size fits all thing. I think the definition should be based on the type of job you want, what schools in that area recruit at the school, how many students get jobs etc. For example more schools can get you into a Big 4 accounting job as compared to an investment banking Wall Street job.
@happy1 So I mentioned being interested in risk management/actuary type jobs. Would a state flagship(Penn State and Pitt for me) vs top 20-30 school make a difference for this field? I know location can make a difference too but it seems like if you go to Wharton(in Philly) its still better than going to most of the colleges in NY even though they might be closer to all the action.
@classof2017, My daughter went to Michigan. She was a financial math major. The school has a major in risk management or actuarial math. I can 't remember.
Anyway, passing the actuary tests are what is important if you want to be an actuary. My daughter decided she wanted to be an actuary. She took tests. She got actuarial jobs. You pass a couple of tests, you will get a job. Sometimes you can do this while at college. You finish the tests, and become a licensed actuary, I think you are set. It is not that easy to pass these tests.
My daughter decided she would rather work in operations so she never finished all the tests and is not a licensed actuary.
She graduated several years ago. I can’t believe things have changed that much.
Have you looked at the majors and courses in the math departments at the schools you are interested in?
Are you very strong in math? If not, finance is easier than some of the other math courses.
Look at finance courses. Look at marketing courses. Management courses.
My son works on wall street. He says the school you go to does matter on wall street. He did not go to an ivy league school. His roomates went to Yale. His roomates work on wall street. They are doing well.
I used to work at a top strategy consulting firm. We only recruited at top schools. We could get enough hires to fill our needs from these schools and we were confident that anyone who walked into the interview room was going to be smart enough to do the job, so there was no reason to recruit anywhere else. This is one case when undergrad matters.
I worked in the Chicago office of a large Fortune 500 financial services company. We weren’t hiring consultants or investment bankers, but we were hiring finance professionals in a wide variety of positions.You certainly didn’t need to go to an Ivy or a similar top ranked school to be hired, but we didn’t recruit at lower tier schools, either. A lot of the students we hired were from the big state flagships in the area - Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin, Michigan - which had well respected business schools. However, we weren’t hiring from the middle of the class - the students who were hired straight out of school were top students with good resumes.
@class0f2017, let’s break down your question a little bit.
For a corporate job (say finance), as has been mentioned a flagship state school will definitely get you in the door (at least if you have good grades) after which time the college you went to will matter very little. Undergrad is generally enough though an MBA can probably let you start at a higher level or move through the ranks a bit faster. But advancement is usually merit-based (as was previously mentioned) though how savvy you are/how well you play office politics can also matter. You should check with the career office of a school to see what types of jobs a school’s graduates tend to get to see if it is a match with your desired outcome(s).
I’m a bit unclear what kind of consulting job you are looking for. If you were thinking of something specifically geared to finance I can’t help. If you are shooting for a large, high prestige consulting firm then where you get your degree certainly matters. First because recruiting tends to be time intensive and it takes consultants away from clients…so firms want to be as efficient as possible and go to the undergraduate schools that they think have the deepest talent pools. These tend to be perceived as being the elite private colleges (Ivies, Stanford, Williams, Amherst, Duke, Northwestern, U. Chicago, etc.). Often these students did not study business. They are hired more times than not for their intellect. Top tier firms hire undergrads at lowest level of firm and USUALLY require these hires return to graduate school in order to progress up the ranks. There are exceptions, but I wouldn’t plan on that. Another (less important at junior ranks) reason consultants like elite colleges is because when they are selling the client on the team that will be doing work for them, they want the company to be impressed by the elite school backgrounds of their staff. If you are trying to bill a relatively high price for a public school graduate they don’t tend to like that b/c they probably have many graduates of that college populating their organization. Perception matters and clients want to think that they are getting the best.
OP asked in the other forum if he’d be at a disadvantage with Wall St and/or consulting having an econ or math or other LA degree vs an undergrad business-specific degree like finance or management.
If you want to go into Risk Management/actuarial science and are in PA -you mentioned Penn State and Pitt - you would be MUCH better off going to Temple! Temple is an Actuarial Science Center of Excellence (an industry designation) where as Penn State and Pitt are not! For Actuarial Science all that really matters is how many tests you have passed Most kids out of Temple pass at least 4 or 5 even! before graduating! (Pitt Penn State only 2)
The professors at Temple wrote the textbooks for actuarial Science industry. All of the Actuary firms recruit at Temple …the Wharton kids go to Temple actuarial career fairs an recruitment … Temple is ranked in top 5 in country for Actuarial Science and risk management (Wharton is also ranked in top five for risk management- not Actuarial Science))
You will have paid internships and 70K starting job in Actuarial Science coming out of Temple easy…
If you want to be an actuary, the tests are what matter. A basic math degree from any school will suffice. There is a high demand for actuaries so you wont have a problem getting a job. You should be able to self study and pass the first, maybe second while an undergrad.
It seems to matter for the first job out of school, but not as much after that, from what I’ve seen. I’m in a different part of Finance though so can’t speak for risk management per se…
There are schools that you’ve never heard of (that don’t even have their own pages here on CC) who graduate more well-employed finance, risk management, and actuary grads than you would believe. You can excel coming out of hundreds of undergrad programs.
@runswimyoga That’s very interesting! With my GPA and potential SAT score, I could get the top scholarship which is full tuition and then some. Are there any other lesser known schools that stand out for risk management/actuary?
@Chardo any examples that I have missed that have good scholarship money or FA?
@myjanda Although I asked specifically for risk management, I would love to hear your experience in finance as although I am set in something in finance, I might go a different route in the future.
What are your stats? What else do you prefer in a school (location, size, vibe, etc.)?
@chardo I don’t have an SAT yet which makes this kind of tough but GPA is ~97 UW, ~99 W, 2nd in class, most rigorous course load designation, 7 APs/9 honors throughout high school, and a 1400 PSAT. I would like a school that is within a few hours drive of PA, mid sized, urban or atleast rural with some fun things to do around, work hard/play hard(not necessarily drinking,etc) where people care for academics but like to have a social life, and schools that have good internship opportunities.
You do not need a specialized actuarial program to start an actuarial career. Economics major with a math minor available everywhere will work for a wide variety of careers including actuarial track. Look at www.beanactuary.com for more details on the actuarial career. Most jobs are in the major metropolitan areas. Universities in these locations may host dedicated actuarial jobs/internships fairs. 1-2 exams plus an internship in an insurance company, preferably in an actuarial capacity, is a must.