<p>America's</a> Best Colleges sorted by Rank - Forbes.com</p>
<p>Oh, this is the Navy thread - sorry, you'll have to go to page TWO to seek the ranking for USNA.</p>
<p>Soooooo let me guess, your son/daughter goes to WP????</p>
<p>What an awful ranking. It makes most others look good in comparison. Definitely biased toward small(er) privates.</p>
<p>so .... no problem, BigGreen .... I mean, we KNOW that its not a FOOTBALL ranking now don't we?! ;)</p>
<p>And yet - if it were an academically 'tilted' ranking , it would definitely make you wonder about how tough the USMA and USAFA programs are given the fact that the next Commander in Chief will quite possibly be not only a USNA grad, but NOT one that was an academic star .... </p>
<p>hmmmmm ....
something to think about anyway :)</p>
<p>BEAT ARMY! (again)</p>
<p>Better to have Senator McCain - even being a USNA grad but just barely - than the alternative. Class rank may be counterintuitive though. Remember the last President we had who was a Naval Academy grad - he finished high in his class and brought us 21 percent inflation and continues to wreak havoc on the U.S. today in foreign affairs.</p>
<p>We can only hope that David Petraeus, who went to the right Academy, will run at some point in the future.</p>
<p>My alma mater - Dartmouth - ranks 127 in the Forbes ranking but 1st in the financial success of its graduates. Not sure what to make of that.</p>
<p>They're always interesting and feed our fascination with this stuff. This one's one of the most laughable, and not because it fails to recognize the obvious, USNA is tops. </p>
<p>But it's like saying 2 watermelons beat your 4 cucumbers anyday! And everyone knows that goat's milk fudge is THE BEST! Now if we could just get some moojuice outta Billy's brass ... :eek:</p>
<p>BigGreen -</p>
<p>concur as to political statements (including Petraeus).</p>
<p>That being said as a (Navy) surface warfare family, we've 'heard' about money, but it remians elusive .... ok .... relatively non-existant! (although you CANNOT beat the view on a starry night at sea!)....
We did have one sailor who cracked the $ code ... Ross P.</p>
<p>Have to say - 127th is ridiculous but simply solidifies my theory that said list was assembled by a bitter USMA or USAFA grad ...... ;)</p>
<p>Haha worst ranking EVER.</p>
<p>I actually like these rankings. USNEWS doesn't even include USNA, USMA, and USAFA. Forbes actually recognizes these schools for their greatness. USNA as #36 is probably about right, and West Point should be a little better, but not by as much. I'm glad we got all of the big three service academies in the top 40.</p>
<p>I was a cross admit to Dartmouth, and I can't believe that they're 127, it doesn't make any sense.</p>
<p>US News does indeed include USNA and USMA now - they are in the Liberal Arts category -meaning they emphasize undergraduate education and award more than 50% of their degrees in the Arts and Sciences.</p>
<p>If you look at Forbes Top Public you will see USMA, USNA and USAFA in the top 4 - not too shabby at all.</p>
<p>GoNavyXC - according to the article what got Dartmouth was the amount of debt students incurred.</p>
<p>Whistle Pig - I am not sure why you claim the ranking to be bunk - for sure no one like college ranking unless their school comes out on top - :)
That said I like the criteria they used - relying on the quality of education and how much the net cost is vs relying on reputation.</p>
<p>Ya gotta LOVE rankings on ANYTHING! If you come in 'on top' you think the rankings are teriffic....if you don't the rankings stink.</p>
<p>So lets try a different approach.</p>
<p>I just went on the US census page and according to them there are 3,559 colleges in the US.</p>
<p>That means ALL the Service Academies rank in the top 1 percent of schools in the US. </p>
<p>Isn't THAT good enough for us all??????????</p>
<p>In my book, ANY one of our young Americans who are slaving away at one of our Service Academies deserves nothing short of gushing praise and admiration - not parent's and others looking to smirk at each other. These young adults had 99% OTHER options for their studies. Yet they chose a US Service Academy. </p>
<p>God bless them, every one.</p>
<p>I'm a bit surprised at the disparity between rankings with the 3 Service Academies. I always saw academics at the three schools as similar (If anything, exchange students thought ours was a bit tougher because we crammed the same amount of class into fewer weeks per semester). As far as the other aspects of the school are concerned, all three schools have the added leadership/character building, and the physical standards as well. I'm sure West Point and and Air Force are just as famous for their alumni networks as Navy too. Why the difference?</p>
<p>Different sources..different results.</p>
<p>MyPlan.com</a> :: Colleges :: College Rankings :: Prestige</p>
<p>Is it possible they took toughness into account, i.e. air conditioned barracks vs. no air conditioned barracks - or maybe marching skills, i.e. can't march in a straight line and actually know how to march. hmmmm</p>
<p>Several things stand out with the Forbes ranking. First off, the report takes into account success of the graduates. Since the purpose of the service academies is to train officers and all graduates enter active duty that should be equal between all the academies. However, WP’s high ranking would indicate that maybe things are not equal. WP officer retention is actually much lower than either USNA or USAFA at this time and the Army is actually offering incentives to maintain retention. It kinda seems that WP officers resigning their commission and going on to lucrative civilian careers disproportional to the other academies is causing USMA to be ranked higher. Not hardly fair.</p>
<p>They took into account post graduate programs. USNA discourages this practice since the Navy goal is to get officers into the fleet. That USNA leads the SAs in recent years in the prestigious fellowships doesn’t seem to matter. Another unfair comparison.</p>
<p>What really amazes me is that one of the major factors was student evaluations of their professors on a voluntary online rating service. Just how scientific and objective is this? Also, students evaluating the professors for the final Forbes ranking might be akin to what we down South compare to the fox guarding the henhouse. Along the vein of no one ever flunked out of a liberal arts program and had to take engineering, note that very few of the Forbes top ranked schools are known for their engineering programs. Are engineering professors not as good as the liberal arts ones? Or maybe harder and suffer lower student evaluations? Another useless comparison, I would guess.</p>
<p>peskemom-</p>
<p>loving your take on this!!!!</p>
<p>Forbes listed daughters college in the low 200's....
I guess that is due in large part to the $48k per year tuition-
and the Jesuits are never "easy" when it comes to academics-
top 50 on any other list-
but it was #1 for her!!!!
so according to Forbes- she did the physics at the 200 rank school, but the engineering courses at the top 10 rank.... maybe I will just average the two and leave it at around 100!!!! </p>
<p>Just imagine all the folks paying out big bucks for their top college choice listed on the princeton or USNews and World Report- only to find Forbes has put them hundreds of spots lower!!! Bet some egos are really out of joint today! :eek:</p>
<p>ps... had a good friend who sent her daughter to Brown- on the 5 year plan- at goodness knows how much $$$$- she graduated with a degree in "puppetry"..... fast forward 3+ years and she is still unemployed at last count. It's not always about the education-but what one does with it that counts. Wonder where Bill Gate's garage ranks on the Forbes list!!!! LOL!!!</p>
<p>Reading the article leaves one rather unimpressed with the methodology used in creating this list. Rather unscientific to say the least...</p>
<p>
[quote]
the Center for College Affordability and Productivity, Forbes.com inaugurates its first ranking of America's Best Colleges, an annual list. In this report, the CCAP ranks 569 undergraduate institutions based on the quality of the education they provide, and how much their students achieve.</p>
<p>CCAP's methodology attempts to put itself in a student's shoes. How good will my professors be? Will the school help me achieve notable career success? If I have to borrow to pay for college, how deeply will I go into debt? What are the chances I will graduate in four years? Are students and faculty recognized nationally, or even globally?</p>
<p>To answer these questions, the staff at CCAP (mostly college students themselves) gathered data from a variety of sources. They based 25% of the rankings on 7 million student evaluations of courses and instructors, as recorded on the *Web site RateMyProfessors.com.* Another 25% depends on how many of the school's alumni, adjusted for enrollment, are listed among the notable people in Who's Who in America.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>LOL RateMyProfessor.com If you have ever visited this site, it is so flawed it is not funny. Anyone at any university or even outside a university can get an account and rate any professor. You do not need to be enrolled in any of the professors courses to give an evaluation. The last time I was on the site it did not even list correctly the courses for which my husband teaches yet you could rate him in courses that he has not taught for the last 5 years! Hardly scientific...</p>
<p>I may not be correct on this but I seem to recall a few years ago when husband was "invited to be listed" that it cost $$$$ and he chose not to participate, citing that it was nothing more than a vanity book.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Marquis Who's Who states that selection of individuals for listing in its publications "is based on reference value. Individuals become eligible for listing by virtue of their positions and/or noteworthy achievements that have proved to be of significant value to society. An individual's desire to be listed is not sufficient reason for inclusion. Similarly, wealth or social position are not criteria. Purchase of the book is never a factor in the selection of biographees".
Tucker Carlson, in an article entitled "The Hall of Lame" that appeared in Forbes Magazine in 1999, wrote that the selection process is neither rigorous nor meaningful, and self nominators and thousands of people not particularly notable are included... Carlson also writes that Marquis makes money selling addresses to direct mail marketers. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_Who's_Who%5B/quote%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_Who's_Who
[/quote]
</a></p>
<p>Seems rather odd when Forbes publishes an article that discredits Who's Who and now is involved in this ranking that is using information gathered by Who's Who</p>
<p>The Forbes article even states
[quote]
Admittedly, there is an inherent absurdity in ranking colleges and universities with mock precision from first to 569th.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>To add to USNA69's observations, students producing the rankings have to take into consideration educational opportunities - With USMA offering 42 majors, USAFA 32 majors, USNA is already at a disadvange in terms of educational opportunities with 19 majors. (It never takes into account that just maybe USNA does the 19 better than anyone else!)</p>
<p>As reform is almost upon our Midshipmen and the Academic Year commencing next Wednesday, Good luck to all of the Midshipmen. Your education "worth" is really what you make of it, not some random ranking published by a random magazine. I have no doubt that the quality of the education at ALL of the Service Academies is fantastic. What our Mids and Cadets do with that education is what is most important.</p>
<p>Hats off to the 2/C parents as our kids embark upon signing their papers!</p>
<p>I am quite sure that if the rankings between Army and Navy were reversed - there would be a celebration here........</p>
<p>Methodology</a> - Forbes.com
Above is the link to the methodology if anyone cares.</p>
<p>It really is quite interesting - The rankings were not done by Forbes but by the Center for College Affordability and Productivity. They are trying to tie in strength of education and the cost of that education. Something that US News doesn't do.
They also did not ask any schools to self-report, again unlike USNews. Reputation is not ranked - just results.</p>
<p>Navy2010 - my daughters tiny little LAC in the hills of North Carolina was ranked a lofty 175! What a surprise!</p>
<p>They attempted to single out and rank the top 569 colleges in the country - all the SA's did very well.
It is not easily apparent why USMA and USAFA were ranked higher than USNA - USMA could have won out on the quality of teaching - they have been consistently ranked in the top ten in the Princeton Review in Best Classroom Experience.
The "success" of grads looked at those who graduated and were born since 1952 - from the 70's - 90's. Plenty of time for mids and cadets to have retired and start a second career.</p>
<p>Lastly, IMO - good publicity for any Service Academy = good publicity for All Service Academies!</p>
<p>I am going to have to side with profmom on this one- the methodology leaves much in question, as do most of the other rankings. Thankfully our kids considered other factors when selecting their schools of choice- </p>
<p>Personally, the litmus test for me always came at Thanksgiving- when the kids came home, and more importantly, if they went back. And I could not agree with Profmom more- education is one thing, what one does with it is what counts.</p>
<p>Unless something has changed, USMA follows the Thayer method in the classroom- not unlike what USNA uses, although I doubt they will credit Thayer with the idea! ;)</p>
<p>BTW- heard there are already over 9,000 peliminary applications for the USNA Class of 2013!</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am quite sure that if the rankings between Army and Navy were reversed - there would be a celebration here........
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Of course, just as USMA is celebrating on their pages. But in that same tone we certainly are not taking away from celebrating the fact that USMA, ASAFA, and USNA are ALL ranked, just as NavyXC pointed out.</p>
<p>As far as the rankings done on results, not self reporting - that is a stretch. 25% was based on the students opinion - and another 25% on Alumni fares in Who's Who. Both sources are based on a good deal of Self Reporting.</p>
<p>There are subtle differences between all of the Academies. That alone is going to create a hierarchy in the rankings. Nothing wrong with pointing out possible explanations as to why each fell where they did, all done in the spirit of celebrating our kids education. As navy2010 points out each of our children chose their respective Service Academies for a personal reason. That is really the only ranking that matters.</p>