<p>Okay, so my dad thinks that foreign engineers have a difficult time finding jobs in the American Engineering industry. I know that these companies have a policy to not discriminate, but my dad thinkst that those are false and do discriminate inside. I suppose that it would be a bit harder for me, a future korean engineer, to get a job than American engineers -- but I'm not even sure on this statement.</p>
<p>Also, I don't know how engineers get recruited, but my dad thinks that if I go to in his mind "a no name engineering school" which in his mind is Rose-Hulman, Harvey Mudd or Renssalaer, that I wouldn't be able to find jobs. So instead, he's pushing me to Michigan or Cornell...and I really don't want a big campus feel like that. Besides, I heard that Michigan engineering, although they have a high-ranked program, doesn't prepare students that well, and students have difficulty finding jobs/internships. Is this true as well?</p>
<p>HOW EASILY WOULD I BE ABLE TO FIND A JOB IN CHEMICAL/ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING AS A KOREAN STUDENT? Assuming I was searching in the American Engineering industry of course.</p>
<p>thats crap...my dad is an engineer and he's worked with koreans, chinese, russian, american, japenese, and as of the past few months, tawianese (?? spelling??)
also, those are not no names...companies simply have to look more into a school...keep in mind, big name schools are going to have less curves, worse grades, and harder requirements, so your GPA is likely to drop and its a big move...
also, kids from those places may not find jobs because of their lower GPA...a 3.0 is a safe zone, anything lower is questionable (i know someone who graduated in '04 from VT with a 2.9 and couldnt find work for 9 months, and still isnt doing exactly "engineering" work)</p>
<p>Harvey Mudd is far from a "no name engineering school" in the science fields. If employers have never heard of it, then you probably shouldn't work for them.</p>
<p>It is the law in the US that foreigners, unless they have a green card or some sort of special visa, cannot legally work in this country. The special visas are only given if the company has tried to hire US workers and has been unable to. And even then, these visa are limited. Just because you are given a student visa does not mean you will be given a work visa.</p>
<p>Unless you have something very unique about you, something that will not be found in an ameraican applicant, you should not be hired by a US company. I suggest you don't expect that you will be able to find work in the US, no matter where you attend college. (unless you already have a green card, in which case you will not be discriminated against.)</p>
<p>I guess I don't understand why foreingers think they have a "right" to jobs in the US. Does your country give foreigners free reign in its job market?</p>
<p>My NE group has 3 Americans who are not 1st generation and 7 Americans who are 1st generation - Russian, Bulgarian, Egyptian, Chinese, Brazilian, Indian, Romanian.</p>
<p>"which in his mind is Rose-Hulman, Harvey Mudd or Renssalaer, that I wouldn't be able to find jobs."
if having a big name is all he is concerned about, engineering is definitely not for him. try acting... or i dunno... i'd venture to say that having to work <em>that</em> much harder to make up for the "name" thing is beneficial to students... it is motivation to be <em>that</em> much better.</p>
<p>"Harvey Mudd is far from a "no name engineering school" in the science fields. If employers have never heard of it, then you probably shouldn't work for them."
I agree 100%. I, by no means, feel that employment is "the employer is doing me a favor" and therefore I should settle at trying to explain that HMC or Rose Hulman is just as good (if not better in some cases) than say, MIT, CIT, or Berkeley. If they don't know about HMC or Rose Hulman, that sets off alarms in my book that they haven't done their research and I feel as if I don't want to work for them. I hate the feeling of starting from the absolute bottom just because some unknowledgable employer things that you are second rate. </p>
<p>Look at your school choices from the aspect of what you'll get out of their particular program, how you fit into their style, and what you can contribute to the community and their particular academia.</p>
<p>Why the hatred against foreign engineers? The fact is most americans are not willing to work and study hard to become an engineer, so the american companies have to hire foreign engineers.</p>
<p>"thats crap...my dad is an engineer and he's worked with koreans, chinese, russian, american, japenese, and as of the past few months, tawianese (?? spelling??)"</p>
<p>"Why the hatred against foreign engineers? The fact is most americans are not willing to work and study hard to become an engineer, so the american companies have to hire foreign engineers."</p>
<p>I'll make the argument that 'most foreigners are not willing to study hard to become engineers'. It's just that there are a TON more foreigners than Americans. 300 million Americans vs 2 billion Asians... Americans are outnumbered 7 to 1. That, coupled with the socioeconomics (i.e., humanitarian, environmental, civil contraints) in America is a PERFECT equation for lots of jobs going overseas. I mean, why spend $20 making a pair of jeans in the U.S. when you can send the job to a sweatshop employing kids and adults for $0.20 an hour? Futhermore, have you ever looked at the pollution emittion stats for say, India or China?</p>
<p>My major discontent with sending jobs overseas is that you do not know how the manufacturer is doing the job. You don't know if they mistreat or underpay their workers or if they don't give a s**t about the environment. I don't hate foreigners (heh, my last 3 gfs were Asian), but things don't get done for cheap "for free". Something, whether it be product quality, wage, or environment must give.</p>
<p>Now, that addresses manufacturing...how about engineering? Japan is great. Japan has some world-class research going on. They are aware of their impact on the world (socially, fiscally, environmentally). Through the past several decades, they have made it their goal to be on the cutting edge of innovation, while preserving decency in the work-place. Japan, like American has a per capita GDP in the range of $35k-$40k. Yes, part of the expensive of working/living in Japan is the high land cost, but a good amount of the cost is also going into assuring a minimum-wage and a low-impact manufacturing process; innovation is required to make the profits rather than shear mass-production and profit from cheap labor.</p>
<p>What keeps China or India from being innovation leaders? There is a lot of preaching of conformity in the culture... While there are exceptions (probably quite a few), I don't see China or India an engineering innovation competitor with Japan, even though each one is much more populated.</p>
<p>''300 million Americans vs 2 billion Asians...''</p>
<p>Well in China there is already 2 billion.
and in India, there is around a billion.
So, its 3 billion (50% of the world population) from these two nations.</p>
<p>''There is a lot of preaching of conformity in the culture...''</p>
<p>Social conformity, in time, can transcend intellectual conformity. The idea here, is in eduacation, one who takes a diffferent look at problems can apply their social restraints on their education... that is the idea " because I am not allowed to act differently when I walk around, I am not allowed to learn differently when I think about something." The trend is people shunt themselves, and while there are still many brilliant minds, the net effect is a lessened intellectual diversity.</p>
<p>"Foreigners" typically applies to those who are not permanant residents of a region. American is a melting pot so if you are an immigrant and you have lived here for 7(?) years (with certain criterion met), you can become a citizen. If you are Asian, European, South American, African, or Martian, if you live permanently in America, you are not a foreigner... because America's majority is made of minorities.</p>
<p>"Well in China there is already 2 billion.
and in India, there is around a billion.
So, its 3 billion (50% of the world population) from these two nations.
"
Okay, so you strengthened my point. America is vastly outnumbered.</p>
<p>This is hilarious. We have like 3 different tangents in this thread.</p>
<p>To the OP, there is probably a slight advantage for a caucasian male being hired over an asian if the interviewer is caucasian. Likewise, I'd think it'd be opposite if it was caucasian student being interviewed by an asian.</p>
<p>rocketDA, Japan has a very collectivistic society. There is just as much pressure for conformity in Japan as there is China and probably far more than there is India, which does not have a Confucianist culture. India and China's lack of innovation thus far has a lot more to do with their weak intellectual property laws and rote learning-based education systems than their culture.</p>
<p>OP, your father is wrong on both accounts. Rose-Hulman and HMC are excellent schools and there are so many Asians in the engineering industry that you probably won't have to worry about discrimination from whites.</p>
<p>Yeah. India isn't bad... it is definitely on the up-swing with innovation and such. I used Japan as a comparative because Japan leaves both India and China in the dust when it comes to real R&D in technology.</p>
<p>Most wont want to work hard to become engineers?! I think that is completely untrue!!!</p>
<p>First off, engineering programs in North America are more expensive than other undergrad programs, so most cant afford it (not everyone that needs loans, or funding is able to get......so, many bright and hard working people that are poor cannot do what they wish to).</p>
<p>Foreign countries (non-North American countries) have easier access, and give out larger amounts, to fund students that are in need of funding. So, of course there will be more foreign trained engineers coming into North America.</p>