<p>At what level of study does the SAT subject in foreign language test? Is it comparable in content to the AP exam, or at a lower level? ZS's school doesn't do AP (or even IB HL) in her language, so we were wondering if three years of honors classes provided adequate preparation.</p>
<p>Also, if a school requires two subject tests and recommends one in the foreign language in order to test out of the subject, how firm do you think a recommendation is if a student plans to take a substantial chunk of a language not studied in high school for the college major (Latin and/or Greek)? In an instance where language is a major part of the student's college plans and she has no interest of testing out, would that be seen as an acceptable reason for sending the subject test in another area, or should she just send it anyway? </p>
<p>Have her ask her language teachers. They are the one’s who know the level of instruction in their terminal classes, presumably know what is expected in the SAT subject tests and may know how some recent students did on them. ZD may even know a few and can pick their brains too.</p>
<p>I think I’d see if she can test out of the requirement – it’s not a credit granting test, it’s a requirement fulfulling test. </p>
<p>I think the SATII is supposed to cover through third year high school, which is the number of high school units that often fills the requirement for many colleges (including the Hotel School at Cornell). My son’s French teacher did say that most language courses are working more on conversational language and less on the fine points of grammar, while the test tends to focus on the grammar end.</p>
<p>A lot of colleges (maybe all?) require placement test for math and Foreign language before one can register for their first semester at college. It looks like your child had enough of it in HS, I would not worry too much, she would be in a right class at college. My D. never had AP either, was not offered at her school. She placed into 3rd semester of class at college, scoring much higher than the highest listed score on placement test, and she is not a language major at all. I cannot answer about SAT II, D. did not take it. She is done taking her Spanish in college, was one of her easier classes.</p>
<p>If she has no desire to test out of the language requirement, then I see no definitive reason to take the test if she feels she would do better in other subjects. </p>
<p>Looking at the larger picture, her goal should be to present the two SATII scores that strengthen her application the most. If one of those is a language score, fine. If instead they would be MathIIC and US History–just plucking a couple of choices out of the air–that’s fine too.</p>
<p>I do think that it is always a good idea to keep one’s options open and she might change her mind about her major. So if she is strong in two non-language subjects, she could take those two plus the language. Schools are probably only going to consider her top two scores for admissions purposes–unless she’s homeschooled-- so she would basically have the language score in her back pocket just in case. But since most people find that 2 tests per date is the max, it would require her taking two test dates to get it done. Another approach would be to take one of the other two plus the language on the first test date. If she gets a great score in both, she’s done. If her language score is so-so, she could take another SATII later.</p>
<p>Not to over-strategize, or anything! :)</p>
<p>One way to estimate her score would be to take a practice test, and see how it goes. Another thing to do is check the College Board site, which gives information about scores and percentiles on the SAT IIs. (There are some subjects where an astonishing number of kids get very high scores. Astonishing, that is, until you realize that most of them are native speakers and that the test is pitched at a low level because of the difficult of basic learning for non-native speakers. Chinese is an example.)</p>
<p>From the scuttlebutt on CC some language exams are much easier than others. A native speaker of Chinese will easily do well, while the equivalent exam in Spanish is much harder. </p>
<p>One would think that the AP test should be harder, but that sure doesn’t explain why Harvard accepts a 600+ on an SAT language exam, but a 5 on the AP for getting out of the language requirement. </p>
<p>In the end if you can get a good score on the SAT language exam (whatever your personal definition of “good” is) you should consider taking it as one of your subject tests. If you want to place out of language in college, you should consider taking it - perhaps waiting till spring of senior year. If you are taking the AP, and expect to do well on the AP you might not bother with the SAT. There’s no one right answer here.</p>
<p>“three years of honors classes”? Depends on the level at your HS. </p>
<p>According to CB, Recommeded Prep is “Three to four years of Spanish language study in high school (or two years of strong preparation), or the equivalent.”</p>
<p>But that is folly, IMO. Paul Kanarek, head of PR in SoCal (who has a vested interest in subject test prep), tells kids NOT to take any language test if they are non-native until the 4th year or AP (if they are seeking a strong score). OTOH, also concur with mathmom: if the language test is one of your kids’ “good” scores, definitely send it. (That doesn’t mean that the student cannot repeat that level in college.) Otherwise send the two (or three) best scores.</p>
<p>Yes, the AP test is harder, if only bcos it includes Listening (and the audio goes fast).</p>
<p>zoosermom - I’m not sure which language test your D is thinking of taking, but I know the scores in Spanish and French tend to be lower than many other subjects, even for strong language students. Someone once posted some good advice on CC (sorry, I can’t remember the poster’s name) which was to take the tests that will get you the highest scores for when you’re applying to colleges, and save the SAT II foreign language exam for May or June of your senior year if you want to use if for placement.</p>
<p>My d is a strong Spanish student 3rd year - got a 4 on AP and just a 660 on the SAT II which was about 50% - it is tough to get a high % since you are testing against native speakers but they say colleges know this.</p>
<p>As a Spanish teacher, I would say that it depends on the focus your teachers gave. If you were into heavy conversation, then neither test is easy. If you were into grammar, then SATII. If you were into writing, analysis and grammar, then AP. I teach AP and find the AP test to be ridiculously hard. It tests at a much higher level than the first 2 years of college Spanish. You have to be able to compare and contrast 3 resource materials (at least one of them oral, so you have to take notes) and write cogently about a topic properly citing them. And some of the fill-in-the-blank sections are of a very high degree of difficulty. We are very happy if we can break the 40-45% pass rate in our school. Very few natives take it. And if anyone thinks that 4 yrs of HS Spanish can prepare you for this level, well…It really does test fluency not mastery, which is what HS curriculum gets you. One year of AP after 3 years of regular Spanish is not enough, especially when experts state that it takes 7 years of formal classroom work to become fluent. The passing rate for non-natives is much lower. And we have had natives fail, because they didn’t pay attention to the grammar. Tough tests all around.</p>
<p>The Latin AP (Virgil) is not nearly this hard. My son worked hard, but he’s no native speaker. He got a 5, and he wasn’t the only one. He didn’t take the SAT so can’t tell you how they compare.</p>
<p>My daughter took through Spanish III, skipped IV, and took the SATII a month into AP Spanish V. There are two kinds of language tests. One is written, the other is “listening.” They are usually not given on the same date. My daughter took the written Spanish test because that was offered on the day she was testing. She – an A student – got a 690. She had prepared using one of the prep books, I’m sorry I can’t remember which one – but the test was much harder than the prep tests in the book. She did study for about two weeks before the test, and that definitely helped, but she wished she had studied more. The vocab used in the reading comp portions of the actual test was extremely difficult. </p>
<p>She took the AP test in May. It was, as someone above said, “ridiculously hard.” Much of it is oral and the speaking is very fast, and the accents varied. She had no confidence that she had gotten ANYthing right, but she got a 4. Go figure. </p>
<p>I, too, have heard that people don’t recommend the SAT language subject tests because they are so hard, and there is often no curve due to native speakers scoring perfect or near perfect scores. </p>
<p>Take your two best bets for the SATIIs. Literature and Spanish were my daughter’s. Fortunately she got an 800 in lit!</p>
<p>D got a 770 or 780 (not worth looking it up right now) on the French SAT II (without listening) and a 4 on the AP. She reported the AP oral part was extremely hard, difficult to understand the rapid speech. I think she did relatively better on the SAT because she was taught the grammar, vocabulary, etc. in class but is not a native speaker and has had some immersion for short periods during summers. The “word” from language teacher at our h.s. is that the Spanish AP test used to be much easier than French in what was required but that Spanish was recently changed and is now more demanding. If you’re comparing current Spanish AP scores to those of 5 years ago, the comparison might not be fair.</p>
<p>I teach HS French and Spanish, and my D took both the French SAT II (w/listening) and the AP. I would agree that they are hard. I wish there were a way to single out the native speakers from these tests; I don’t think it’s fair that they skew the curve. D’s scores were lower than her other tests, as someone else, above, also mentioned. If ZS needs a third SAT II, and if he feels confident in the language, then he should take it. Admissions officers are very well aware of the lower scores and the reasons for them. My D also took a placement test when she arrived on campus, because she didn’t feel that her scores were particularly indicative of her skill level. Indeed, she placed higher from the placement test than she did with the scores. Maybe take the tests and see what the result is. He doesn’t have to report the AP, if he doesn’t want to, and even if his SAT II score is lower than he would like, it may not really matter. It also could depend on his tolerance for the tests after having taken so many. He may just not want to do any more. That would probably be fine too. So much to think about, right?! :)</p>
<p>True. The AP tests were revamped a couple years ago. Seeing what my D was studying in college, I compared it to what we were doing in the AP class, and trust me, this was MUCH harder. The AP test compares to the end of third year college Spanish after the intricate grammar and literature. And yes, the listening is very difficult with natives from different countries with different accents speaking at their normal rate. I proctored the German AP test, and although much of the format was the same, the level of difficulty (content) was much easier. The natives spoke slower. I teach Spanish and speak German, as well.</p>
<p>With Latin, everybody is on the same playing field since there are no native speakers. Not so with Spanish or Chinese, or some other languages.
S took Spanish to level 4 (Honors) and Latin to Level 3 also Honors. He did better in Latin than in Spanish.</p>
<p>She takes Italian and they don’t give it at the AP level, although she does well with it. The native speaker issue might be something to consider, though. Her strongest tests would be English, World History and Biology. The reason for the question is that she is wild about Bryn Mawr and they recommend the language exam and I’m not really sure what she should do. I guess she could take the next level of Italian at the CUNY. Hmmmm. As far as Latin, she’ll only get to take one year of honors Latin because that’s as much as her school offers and they don’t offer it every year. I wonder is she’s going to be so far behind on languages as to not be a serious candidate for what she wants.</p>