<p>Tapping into the collective wisdom of CC here...</p>
<p>I just got off the phone with an adcomm at UC Berkeley (called that UC campus at random).</p>
<p>My question was, if my child quit taking foreign language in HS after level 2 (as opposed to completing level 3), would that hurt his chances of admission to a UC school? The answer was no, but if he goes only through level 2 in HS, then he must take 3 yrs of foreign language at a UC to graduate (from a UC). If he complete 3 yrs in HS, then he does not need to take any foreign language at a UC.</p>
<p>Has anyone had experience with this? My S is a math/science whiz, NOT a language whiz. I would love for him to complete level 2 in HS and then be able focus on what he enjoys (eg, harder math/science classes), but I don't want him to suffer later if he has to take foreign language all over again at a UC because he only went through level 2 in HS!</p>
<p>It’s not three more years of language at a UC, it’s “complete the third year of language study.” Thus, if you son has studied 2 years in high school, he will have to take at least one semester and possibly a full year of foreign language in the UC system to meet the requirement. </p>
<p>But really, if your son is a math/science whiz, why would you and he want to limit his college choices? Many top universities ask for 3-4 years of foreign language. Not all, but many. </p>
<p>In addition to the issue of bringing up his qualifications for college admissions, many science fields require some proficiency in a foreign language. For instance, my daughter, a physics major at MIT, just completed a summer conducting research at DESY, the particle accelerator in Hamburg, Germany. Some of her physics friends at Berkeley also studied/researched in France and Germany as undergraduates.</p>
<p>It does say that only 2 years of HS foreign language are required, however, from what we heard on tours, the upper tier UC’s in fact “recommend” 3 years. recommend is in “” because you darn well better have it. Doing a year in 7th and 8th grade and got to level 3 in HS, that counted for our DS as 3 years. Foreign language is still a requirement for MOST majors in MOST UC’s, you have to check each one specifically. For our S, one of the things that makes him happy with the CCS UCSB is there is NO foreign language req’d. There is in L&S tho’.</p>
<p>edit to add CCS is College of Creative Studies. L&S is Letters and Sciences (better known as arts and crafts LOL) … And fwiw, College of Engineering has language req’d at UCSB also.</p>
<p>Yep, I do know that for UCs (and others), 2 years are required, 3 are recommended.</p>
<p>The concern is that if S quit after level 2 (I don’t like to call it year 2, because his level 1 was split over 2 yrs in middle school, so technically he’s in “year” 3), by the time he gets to college (he’s a HS freshman now) he will have forgotten everything and will have to start all over again. I think he should bite the bullet now, take through level 3, and be done. (Of course that means another whole year of tutoring after this one. )</p>
<p>To apply to competitive colleges such as some of the UCs, many applicants have 3/4/5 years of foreign languages. My son and his friends applied last year and they all have 4 years or more.</p>
<p>Since my son’s final choices were UC Berkeley and UCLA, he looked into their graduation requirements in depth.</p>
<p>For UC Berkeley, if you took 3 years of high school language, you satisfied the university requirement and you don’t have to take any at Berkeley.</p>
<p>For UCLA, the requirement is 3 quarters. Unless you took the AP test with some score (can’t remember since that doesn’t apply to my son), you must take a placement test regardless of how many years you took at high school. If tested into level 4, then you are done otherwise you still have to take it at UCLA. </p>
<p>So for application, the more years you have the more competitive you are among strong pool of applicants.</p>
<p>For getting your degree, depending on which college, you might still have take in college what you didn’t in high school.</p>
<p>Ponder this for a moment: Only in the United States would this question even make sense. For most of the people on Earth, if you are “a math/science whiz” you desperately want to learn a foreign language (English), whether you are naturally talented at that or not. You aren’t negotiating with your mom or trimming on some college’s application requirements, you are doing everything you can to learn it to a high level of proficiency – much higher than most U.S. students ever achieve in the foreign languages they study. And all of the other English-speaking countries have much, much stronger foreign language study requirements of all students (or all university-bound students) than we do.</p>
<p>Forget UC requirements. The OP’s son (and others like him) should suck it up, stop whining, and learn some language.</p>
<p>How hard can that be? Seemingly that is nothing else than a sign up, sleep through a few classes, “pass” the test, and be done process! Or simply take one of the various tests!</p>
<p>I am curious about the AP/IB equivalence here (and elsewhere). At least as far as I have seen 5+ on an IB HL exam is a MUCH higher standard than 3+ on an AP. But I haven’t seen that much. My son took Latin IB SL in the same room at the same time as other students taking Latin AP Vergil. There was enormous overlap between the curricula for the two courses (about half of the IB SL reading was in the Aeneid), and to the extent they differed the IB SL course was more varied and included more challenging material and a more sophisticated test. He got a 5 on that test, and knew a LOT more Latin than my other kid (4 on French Language AP) knew French.</p>
<p>Maybe that’s just a difference between Latin and French, and I don’t know what the HL Latin IB course covered, since it wasn’t offered at my son’s school. He took the IB SL class rather than AP because he liked the reading list and educational approach better, but there was no question that it was a harder test than the AP version, and harder to do well on.</p>
<p>At some of the UCs they require 4 quarters of language at the college level. My DD had 3 years of HS Spanish plus she took a summer class at a local university in HS equating to 1 year of university Spanish, she still had to take the 2nd year 1st quarter class.</p>
<p>Do those UCs not allow to meet the requirements through College Board or internal testing? I’d think that someone with 3 years of Spanish plus a summer university program should have few problems scoring quite high on such tests.</p>
<p>As others have said, there’s a difference between the ‘minimum required’, the ‘recommended’, and what’s needed to be ‘competitive’ in comparison to other applicants. As I’m sure you know, admission is quite competitive at UCLA/UCB so forget the ‘minimum’, attain at least the ‘recommended’ and consider going beyond that to be more ‘competitive’.</p>
<p>It’s also always good to exercise the different halves of the brain and the foreign language, along with English language capabilities (including reading comprehension, writing, etc.), will serve him well in college and in the workplace even if it’s more difficult for him to attain. Also, at this point in his life he doesn’t really know where he’ll end up regarding the major or the duties in the workplace so it’s best to cover all his bases.</p>
<p>Stay tuned! Son had only 2 years of foreign language, and is a senior. His UC options are pretty limited anyway, though. </p>
<p>"The OP’s son (and others like him) should suck it up, stop whining, and learn some language. "</p>
<p>“like him”? What do you know about what he’s “like”?</p>
<p>A year ago I would have believed “sucking up” another year of foreign language would have meant son giving up on HS; it seemed like that much of a roadblock. Without a language, he went from a 2.2 to a 4.0. I think he might be able to handle it now, though. </p>
<p>Oh well; we can’t all be “competitive” CC families straight out of HS. Some of us feel grateful when our kids just graduate!</p>
<p>Oh, please. This has nothing to do with “CC families”. Kids all over the world learn other languages. Including kids who don’t have an academic bone in their bodies, and who may be, honestly, pretty dumb. They don’t have the option to say, “Oh, I’m no good at this. I shouldn’t have to do it.” Even if their schools gave them that option – which they don’t, generally – LIFE doesn’t give them that option.</p>
<p>Here, things are different. Life and our schools both let kids get by without really learning anything other than English. But that doesn’t mean they don’t lose an important part of the education kids in other countries get if our kids never have the experience of really learning another language.</p>
<p>I personally chose my college degree with one big defining qualification—it could not require that I take a foreign language. If an English major required a foreign language—I took a black marker and crossed it off. Seriously…I just was not going to put myself through those difficult 2 years in high school again! So I can see where your son is coming from.</p>
<p>So I had a cool major at a CSU- no foreign language—all was good. But I did not even apply to UC’s because even way back then there was a requirement.</p>
<p>And now my D is a Spanish minor–go figure? By the way, she (not a native speaker) often freaks out about staying up in her advanced classes with all the native speakers. When I remind her–just because you can speak a language does not mean that you can write a good essay. Just like all of us, who speak perfect English, does not mean we are great writers.
She has done well in her Spanish classes because she can write well—in English and Spanish. That skill has transcended languages.</p>
<p>But as I reflect back—man I wish I spoke a another language!</p>
<p>“Oh, please. This has nothing to do with “CC families”.”</p>
<p>I disagree. In many families, and in many parts of this country it’s a big deal to graduate from HS. Not so here. Here we talk about graduating with an optimal preparation for "competitive " admissions.</p>
<p>“Kids all over the world learn other languages.”</p>
<p>I don’t doubt it, but I would be surprised if it happened the way it happens for “English as first language” speakers in the US.</p>
<p>But that doesn’t mean they don’t lose an important part of the education</p>
<p>Agreed.</p>
<p>kids in other countries get if our kids never have the experience of really learning another language.</p>
<p>I: thought we were talking about two vs. three years in high school, not “never”.</p>
<p>"But as I reflect back—man I wish I spoke a another language! "</p>
<p>I do too and I took MANY years of it. But I think I learned most of what I use outside of the classroom. Still, at age 51, I am about to try "book learnin’ " again.</p>
<p>It’s never too late. With the newer technology, learning languages can be fun and … addictive. If you like collaborative learning (a bit a la CC) google livemocha.</p>
<p>RE: #9, this was a long time ago, my family’s first quarter of any university, it’s a bit fuzzy. I mainly recall being annoyed she had to take it as I thought the summer school classes had worked.</p>
<p>Berkeley DD did use her 3 years of HS Spanish to skip language course, I don’t recall reading that possibility for her older sister, but I wonder why the mid-range UC would be so much stricter. I also don’t recall DD doing any Spanish placement test, but I am sure it was 4 quarters required.</p>
<p>It may very well be that I could have found a way around that requirement with a more assertive approach.</p>
<p>I think a foreign language is part of a rigorous high school curriculum. I know at my kids’ school the kids that get the check box for rigorous have 4 years of language. 5 in theory if they start in middle school and take AP as a senior, 4 if they take 1-4 in high school. Sorry, I happen to agree that the top students are taking a language. Lots of kids whine I can’t do math, I can’t do language, I can’t do this or that…OK but then don’t whine if your selective college requires you to “make up” what you missed in high school. It’s shocking that as a country we yap, yap, yap about global this and global that and then we think it’s “not important” for students to learn alittle bit of language and culture surrounding a foreign language. HIgh school kids may not become proficient at the specific language but they learn much about the differences in language in general.</p>
<p>My sense is that you answered your question in your followup post #4.</p>
<p>The point of the language level requirement is that the applicant has reasonable knowledge and ability in the language to at least begin to read some of the literature in the language. The first two years of language study rarely achieve getting a student to that level. And some argue (and I agree with them) that even three years of language study don’t suffice.</p>
<p>What happens in practice to someone who’s not deeply enthusiastic in a language is that any significant gap in the language study is fatal. So the two years of study plus a one year gap has the effect of nearly taking the student back to square 1. Getting through the 3 year year requirement while in college will very likely mean 3 years of study. Indeed language study becomes increasingly difficult as we age, even from teenage to young adult.</p>
<p>And further the limitation in language would make the applicant less competitive than others who’ve taken the 3 or 4 years. Of course other courses, very high scores and grades can make up for that, but why take the risk?</p>
<p>Different UCs have different requirements when it comes to whether a foreign language is required to graduate. Different majors at the same UC have different requirements.</p>
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