Frantic parent question re: transfer of credits from overseas to US

Applying to College
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<p>Like an unwanted pimple before prom, A HUGE question has arisen just 2 weeks before my daughter departs for her study abroad. Naturally it is the weekend and nothing is open, no person to answer our questions. </p>

<p>DD now attends a traditional US college where 3 contact hours is 3 credits, 4 contact hours (maybe 3 class hours, 1 hour lab) is 4 credits, etc. As a rising junior she has signed up to study abroad Fall semester through a new partner in her school's tiny foreign exchange program. </p>

<p>WELL! This weekend, as DD was filling out class registration forms for host U, she looked over the schedule and discovered that a few of the classes work the way US classes do in the 3-4 contact hour/credit hour range., but the majority are on a "British specialisation" system, whereas something like Dance (a 2000 or 3000) class is a whopping 2 hours of classroom time EVERY DAY, for a total of 10 hours. French Class at the 2000 level meets 1 hour 50 minutes 4x a week, which is almost 8 hours. All Theater, Film, Music, and Visual Arts classes are somewhere between 8 and 9 hours weekly. Even Intro classes, Like Psych 101 and Sociology 101 have a minimum of 4 contact hours in the classroom every week. Literature and Cultural Studies in the 3000 level meet for 5 hours a week. </p>

<p>Not only that, but all classes are taught at roughly the same time, with huge scheduling conflicts. </p>

<p>DD was told nothing of this when she signed up; nor did her college exchange advisor tell her, probably because she didn't know, as this is a new exchange partner and there was scant information available. So DD, who takes 4 classes at her US college per semester, is now in PANIC MODE. There is no way she can spend 30 to 40 hours a week in a classroom, taking 4 classes abroad, all to earn what potentially translates into a (measly) 12 US credits. The students abroad can't possibly be spending that much time in the classroom--are they? </p>

<p>When DD called the host university on Friday, it took her 14 calls! to establish the fact that "some" of the programs are "specialised", and as one clerk in the registrar's office told DD, "we expect that our students [participating in a course of study] are going to be focusing on just that one area." Meaning, there isn't the crossing into different areas how we do here in the US, like taking an Enviro Studies class, a Spanish class, and an Anthropology class, all at the 3000 level, during the same semester. Hence, there is no reason to be concerned over schedule conflicts. </p>

<p>Is anyone familiar with how this works? Thanks ever so much.</p>

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<p>You need to contact the study abroad office in your home institution in the US. None of what you have posted above has any meaning whatsoever to a UK uni. They grade in an entirely different way, with few contact hours and lots of independent study. How UK grades are translated into US ones is entirely up to your US school.</p>

<p>You have encountered a very typical problem. I get PMs from students all the time saying study abroad has ruined their GPA. For some reason it is not considered important to explain grading/credits to students, and few students ask.</p>

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<p>Cupcake–here in the USA our students have very few contact (classroom) hours, averaging somewhere between 12 to 15 hours a week in the classroom (4 or 5 classes), with the majority of time being spent out of the classroom and doing independent work.</p>

<p>Whereas DD’s exchange partner demands so much classroom time–30 to 40 hours a week–there is little room for independent study But given the time schedules (and the number of hours spent in the classroom) under the British system, it is logistically impossible for a US student to take the same 4 or 5 classes in the British system. </p>

<p>So, how do the UK students do it? Maybe I should ask that in a separate post.</p>

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<p>UK students will only be studying in one department, and the number of hours they spend in class each week varies depending on the subject. A humanities student may expect as little as 4 or 6 hours, while a scientist may expect up to 40.</p>

<p>I have no advice for your daughter other than to consider taking a class load as similar to a UK student as possible - pick a year (1000, 2000 or 3000 equivalent, I’d recommend 2— depending on her subject) and study mainly in her major department just as students of that same year at the host institution would be doing. There may be space/scheduling allowing her to take one or maybe two classes in another department, but as you have already experienced, this is very complicated.</p>

<p>Does she not have a host department to which she is allocated at the host university?</p>

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<p>Something has gone skew whiff here. </p>

<p>Firstly, yes, a British student will only be studying one (or possibly two complementary) subjects for their whole time at uni - there are no gen ed requirements, for instance, and timetabling clashes to worry about, because you simply wouldn’t be doing both dance and French. </p>

<p>Secondly, are you sure you’re not basing this on the idea of her doing all of the modules that a British student would be doing that semester, for each course? If so, it could be that she is, in fact, attempting to do 4 degrees simultaneously. The flag has been raised in my mind because of this idea of spending 30-40 hours in the classroom, which is highly unusual, even for STEM subjects. 12-15 hours would be more normal in the humanities. Could you post a link to exactly what she is planning on studying, so that someone who is more familiar with British HE can have a look over it?</p>

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<p>My D had a somewhat different problem when she studied in Finland at U of Helsinki. They essentially split the semester in two parts, and she had to sign up for a TON of classes to get a full semester’s worth of work in. Scheduling was a nightmare… and she definitely did not end up with the same schedule she had listed out as her probable schedule when she applied to study abroad (they asked what classes she expected to take, and she also talked to the departments where the credits would transfer). The upshot is that she ended up emailing some with the study abroad office at her US college and some of the departments in the US college to make sure her credits all transferred back. They did in the end. </p>

<p>But I don’t think it is too unusual for a kid to get to their foreign university and find out that the classes they expected to sign up for are not available to them for some reason. I think US colleges are used to frantic messages/calls from study abroad students at the beginning of the semester trying to sort this type of question out, especially from students who study more on their own (not through a specific program sponsored by their university). I bet it will work out, she is just going to do some back and forth. My D ended up with some classes she really wasn’t to interested in to start with – History of World Financial Systems, anyone? Which actually ended up being one of the better classes she took, so it actually was okay in the end. This is one of those times when that flexibility they say you need to study abroad comes in to play… as long as she communicates with her US college as she makes final decisions on colleges, it will probably work out.</p>

<p>Also… tell her to keep a printed copy of her course schedule and any course syllabus she gets, it can be useful when back in the US to make sure credit is granted.</p>

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<p>Dreaming92, Boomting, et al.–You are onto something; yes, in the British system the students study only within their departments, and fewer classes for longer periods of time. In the US we have many Gen Ed requirements in unrelated areas, bits and pieces of classes that are sewn together like a quilt. </p>

<p>Most students in a US Liberal Arts programs–my daughter amongst them–MUST take classes outside of their majors, and cross studies are encouraged between wildly divergent faculties is encouraged at my daughter’s Liberal Arts College. It is commonplace for students at her school to take advanced courses in Physics, Foreign Language, and Economics, as well as an Intro to Ethics class, simultaneously, in the same semester. Her best friend, a Humanities major, just finished a semester taking Latin American Literature, Adolescent Psychology, Advanced German, and Photography. Each class met once a week for 3 hours. I don’t think this type of program is possible in the traditional UK system. </p>

<p>Oh boy. I know it will be resolved somehow, but in the meantime, it’s stressful for all of us, especially DD, who is being told by the host U to go ahead now and select her classes. Very difficult to choose them if she doesn’t know how many to take and how they convert to US credit hours; her US scholarships require a minimum of 12 US credit hours.</p>

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<p>The host US school should know these answers … if it is a school approved study abroad program the US school will know the translation back to the host school … counting courses, counting credits, what will show on the transcript, how it will affect the GPA, etc.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, you will have to wait until tomorrow to talk to the study abroad office at your D’s university. Since you will be paying tuition to the US school, they should help with the legwork of getting this sorted out. Make sure you call early so they will have an opportunity to call the foreign school.</p>

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<p>Odds are good that in this case they will be able to help. But that is not always the case, especially if a student studies directly with a foreign university and does not go through a formal program; that is what my daughter did. But given that this is a UK college, probably the student’s college will have a good idea about how to resolve this.</p>

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<p>This is not a direct enroll, but a new foreign exchange program with a new partner at DD’s school. Both DD and I made calls to the Uni–14 of them, at a cost of $30–Friday to get the details. However, nobody at the host U could answer the questions, they didn’t understand how the US system works, despite our many attempts at explanation. </p>

<p>The uni is UWI in the West Indies. Through going over their website I have figured out (?) that their students, who have already chosen a major when they begin college, take a LENGTHY class (6-10 contact hours) in their major, and then take one or two SHORTER (4 contact hours each) department-related courses every semester. A 2nd year Spanish language major would take Spanish 201 (6 hours), a Spanish Lit class (4 hours), and another class, such as Caribbean music (4 hours). No requirements such as math as we have here in the US. Because most programs of study are specialized and there is little intermingling between departments, there are, of course, many time schedule conflicts. </p>

<p>DD’s study abroad rep at her local uni here in the US does not return on campus until August 15, while DD’s registration forms at the host U are due August 8. Thank goodness next semester DD is going through a well-known 3rd party with an established program and we won’t have to deal with this again, at least not to this extent.</p>

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<p>Just want to report I have located an archived handbook and it validates what I have been saying. Not only that, each department/major has VASTLY different requirements for a degree–a BoFA in some areas requires as little as 90 credit hours, almost all within a very narrow scope, while other fields require 126+ credit hours. </p>

<p>Not only that, a 4 year program is not based on 4 years, but on 3 levels. So a both a 1st and 2nd year student may be at level 1, while another 2nd year student may be at level 3. </p>

<p>A word to the wise: it’s a lot easier to go into a university that works similar to the US system.</p>

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<p>Just a heads up, what I previously wrote related to UK universities, and it sounds like UWI operates on a system with substantial differences, so most of what I said can be disregarded.</p>

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<p>If your D is attending this uni because she thinks it is similar to UK unis, it clearly isn’t (why didn’t you give us this info in the first place? Rather than waste everyone’s time and your own?)</p>

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<p>Cupcake, no need to be rude. If you refer to my first post you will see that DD did not know the host U is different than the US system. It was over hte weekend that she looked over the timetable, as it’s called, and saw tremendous conflicts every time she tried to schedule 2 classes outside of departments, i.e. French and dance, and Film and French, etc.</p>

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<p>I don’t think cupcake is rude. If you mentioned West Indies instead of UK earlier then you probably save a lot of time for yourself: your D needs an answer right away. I myself can never think that WI is equivalent to UK. My friend’s D attended a medical school in the Caribbean Sea and the school program is similar to the US schools.</p>

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<p>Cupcake wasn’t being rude, she’s only being honest with you. I have no problem with you asking a question, but you didn’t even say what country your daughter was going to so how is anyone supposed to advise you on the relevant education system? The world is not divided into American and British-style systems. Although very few countries use what one might call the American model of liberal arts, one should be prepared for subject specialisation wherever one goes. Why didn’t your daughter research this before she signed up to go abroad?</p>

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<p>I’ll repeat my comment … I believe you’re focusing on the wrong school . It does not matter if the school in the WI knows how to convert the classes to a US system. All that matters if your child’s regular US college knows how to convert the courses … and since this college approved this study abroad program I would think they know how they would convert the classes. So my advice is to direct these questions to the US college.</p>

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<p>My daughter’s present (home) university is new to this exchange partner and they are unfamiliar with the UWI system. </p>

<p>Preliminary word is that they will give daughter only 3 credit hours per class taken, regardless of how many hours she spends in the classroom. So, for a Spanish 2 course at UWI, which is 8 classroom hours per week, dd will receive only 3 credits. </p>

<p>This means she will have to take 4 classes to meet a minimum of 12 credit hours in the US System–which works out to over 23 hours in classroom lectures per week, for 4 classes at UWI. These same classes would be only 13 hours of classtime here in the US. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing?</p>

<p>By the way, a 2nd year Chem major at UWI takes only ONE class per semester, and that class is 30 hours long every week, and that student earns only 2 credits, per the UWI system.</p>

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<p>I am surprised that your daughter’s school did not help her plan her credit transfer needs by letting her know up front how to decide on class selection. For instance, many UK schools use CAT credits where 15 CAT credits=4 US credits. UK students carry 60 CAT credits a semester.</p>

<p>If your daughter’s school has an exchange agreement with this school, you would think they had discussed how each school’s credits would work for students.</p>

<p>I just googled UWI engineering modules and there is a mix of 3 credit and one 4 credit class so the semester load is 15/16 credits. So engineering students are carrying that for a semester which is what US engineering students carry.</p>

<p><a href=“http://myspot.mona.uwi.edu/engineering/content/year-one-core-courses[/url]”>http://myspot.mona.uwi.edu/engineering/content/year-one-core-courses&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;