<p>pizzagirl - I don’t think irishmary203 is trying to say that ALL fraternity pledging processes are very time consuming - she stated that she was NOT making a universal statement. But from what I have heard - there is a lot of truth in her description. I have a good friend whose son is at Indiana University in Bloomington, and she has described to me a similar time-consuming process. Her son pledged first semester of freshman year. The pledges were responsible for driving fraternity brothers to off-campus partes - so they were sober - but out very late. The pledges also had a lot of assignments in cleaning the frat house and running errands for fraternity brothers - that type of thing. She was very concerned that this was cutting into his time for academics and other social activities beyond the fraternity. Like irishmary203 - I am citing this as an example - I am not stating this to be a universal truth at every college in the country.</p>
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<p>I’m sure it really depends on the school but my son and I just got back from the accepted students weekend at the school he will be attending. It’s 20% Greek. We did a tour of the Greek Village (has residential frat houses - all very large and impressive looking buildings). Here’s what we learned from the sorority sisters that toured us (and the brochure the school handed out):</p>
<p>1) After your first semester - all fraternity and sorority members are required to eat lunch and dinner at the house - every day. </p>
<p>2) The fraternities require all members to live in the house for at least one year. Because the sororities are twice as larges as the fraternities, they don’t all get to live there. They are only allowed to live there by ‘earning’ it through grades and service hours.</p>
<p>3) Most of the events are ‘closed’ - in other words, if you aren’t in the frat or sorority, you can’t attend unless you are someone’s date.</p>
<p>4) Directly from the two sorority sisters that toured us - it is very time-consuming. You are expected spend the majority of your free time with the house.</p>
<p>The thing that really turned me off was the meal requirement. Seems to me your social life will, in fact, be limited to only the Greek students. I’m not opposed to Greek life - my husband was in a fraternity at this very same college and really liked it and we know many kids who join a fraternity and love, love, love it. I just wish they would put off rush until at least 2nd semester (this is a southern school that starts rush on Day 2 of school!). Seems like a huge commitment before you even have time to find your first class. On the other hand, I suspect that is the point - grab the incoming freshman when they are new and sort of lost and lonely - before they have time to make other friends.</p>
<p>I have to say that I’m really glad that we did that tour and had a chance to talk to some fraternity members. It was good to hear it directly from the source for that particular school. I do think every school is different as well as every Greek student’s experience is different. IMHO, it’s important to research and understand what exactly the kids are committing to before going through rush. </p>
<p>My advice to son is to wait. You can rush later as a sophomore or junior. By that time you have had a chance to get to know people on the campus and evaluate whether it’s the best fit for you.</p>
<p>Hi again everyone, just want to add a few more thoughts. I agree with Momlive that if my son was required to eat and live off campus in a house with only his fraternity brothers then I am pretty sure that my son would never have pledged a fraternity. He has said numerous times that, for him, he enjoys the ability to socialize with his independent friends. Independents are more than welcomed at fraternity events and if my son chose to live with one next year that would be fine, he is not confined to frat brothers only. At his university the 50% Greek 50% Independent is really the perfect mix. He has said that those in fraternities seem to have a bit more of an active social life but honestly my feelings on that are that is you are at the university to get an education first and no one cares that you came out with an “A” in social activity! But I will say for kids that seem a little more shy or reticent then joining a fraternity can open a brand new world for you.<br>
As for the time element, my son assures me that it will be much better once he is initiated. Sure, because next semester they will find a whole new group of kids although I suspect it will still be demanding. Like Rockvillemom’s friend, my son does a lot of sober driving, setting up, cleaning up (and trust me he could stand a few lessons in cleaning up!) and other things.
I think he enjoys the camaraderie of his fraternity but he is still good friends with his floormates so it is really the best of both worlds for him. I think it is important that the fraternity experience be one of inclusivity and not soley exclusive. I do agree with Momlive that I do think that it is probably a good decision to wait until sophomore year to rush. By that time kids have a good feel for their school, their time management skills etc. and by then kids can decide if fraternity or sorority life is for them.</p>
<p>My S was adamantly opposed to fraternities before he went to college. Now he has pledged one. </p>
<p>His school is one where the majority of eligible students pledge, yet the Greek scene is known as very open–quite different in that regard from most heavily Greek schools. They do not pledge until sophomore year. S remarked to me that some of his friends who he never thought would join a frat had joined his–a very diverse bunch–which is probably what led him there. I don’t think that he would ever have considered pledging one of the more traditional houses strongly associated with a “helmet sport” team. </p>
<p>So far, I would say that it is having only a positive effect on him and expanding, rather than contracting, his social and personal horizons. This term, he volunteered to take responsibility in an area that those who know the kid find astonishing. Being a brother at this house seems to be influencing him to consider taking leadership roles in a way that the introvert of yore would never have considered. I’m hoping that this continues. :)</p>
<p>And pledge term evidently wasn’t too time consuming, since he also held down his first on-campus job and AFAIK his grades didn’t suffer. Oh, and the house has room for some, but not all, of the brothers to live.</p>
<p>The requirement for everyone to eat lunch and dinner at the house every day (including those who didn’t live there) would bother me too. That’s what hampers your ability to make friends from classes, IMO – the ability to eat with them. I think such a system really does unduly narrow your options.</p>
<p>However, I don’t see the big deal of requiring members to live in the house for one year, and I don’t see the big deal of requiring, say, one dinner a week (combined with the chapter meeting).</p>
<p>And I agree that being “expected to spend the majority of your free time with girls in your house” would be a red flag for me, too. I did – because I wanted to. But not because I was expected to or forbidden to make friends elsewhere.</p>
<p>^I was very concerned after our tour yesterday - especially the meal requirement. I don’t know why a Greek system would require this and am not sure how common it is. I’m not bothered by the housing requirement, really, it’s the meals and the closed fraternity events that concern me. I think there are pluses to going Greek but they don’t outweigh the cost of limiting your social life only to Greek members. IMHO, one of the biggest pluses of going to college is expanding your social life to include people from all walks of life. The sorority we visited yesterday made it very clear they are looking for members that ‘fit’ their particular sorority model. I’m not sure if the fraternities are the same.</p>
<p>I’m going to talk to some parents with kids who are in or were in fraternities at this particular college. I’m curious to get their perspective on it. I didn’t get the sense that the fraternities provided the only social activity on campus. Son will be in the honors dorm where a lot of bonding takes place among the students so I think he will have lots of opportunity to make friends there. My husband didn’t join a frat on this particular campus until his sophomore year after he was already friends with some of the brothers. Although, he did say the requirements about meals,etc, weren’t in place when he was there 25 yrs ago.</p>
<p>I graduated from U of Michigan in the mid-70s and was the member of a fraternity. BTW - we never called our house a “frat.”</p>
<p>11 of us from our senior class are still in frequent contact. 4 lawyers, 3 doctors, 1 engineer, 1 college professor, 1 architect and 1 that went into the family business. If you are going to be in the town of another, you email (used to be a phone call). You will get together for dinner or whatever. You will probably be asked to stay with him while in town, even if you are travelling with your family. When together it is like you never missed a beat. We have had three decennial reunions since graduation, always a great time.</p>
<p>I believe each of us would say that being a member of a fraternity was a positive experience.</p>
<p>UofM…which reminds me: when S2 was considering Michigan and the best time for us to visit was over 4th of July weekend a couple of years ago, S1 was able to make contact with a brother in the U0fM chapter staying during the summer, and who offered to be our tour guide for the day. That was my first (of many) experiences with fraternity spirit and generosity.</p>
<p>I refer you to my admittedly rather lengthy post on the ‘Disadvantages of Sororities’ thread, especially the points on ‘Know your campus’ and ‘know yourself’. Whilst this was for girls and sororities, maybe some of the comments will be applicable. </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/857749-disadvantages-joining-sorority-54.html?highlight=sororities[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/857749-disadvantages-joining-sorority-54.html?highlight=sororities</a></p>
<p>quite a lot of campuses, esp large state schools, have meal plans for the greek houses, e.g. Alabama and FSU IIRC… whilst it can be seen as a bad thing (mixing with the same people twice a day), the pluses are that it helps new members get to know each other and the actives much more quickly, and also gives them a place to base themselves during the day. As with a regular meal plan, you don’t have to eat there all the time if you don’t want to (additional cost, tho)…</p>
<p>also, please remember that there are a LOT of people who actually relish the security of mixing with a small-ish, close, maybe rather homogenous group. I went OOS for college, and was amazed at groups of girls from high school who pledged the same sorority so they could basically continue the mass love-in they’d had since they were 14 (or even before!). I understand from posters here that this seems to contradict the point of college, but a LOT of students are like this, and maybe there is nothing wrong with it. I think it is especially prevalent in the south, where students go to the large state school that their parents went to (and where they met at a fraternity/sorority mixer!) and even grandparents attended. </p>
<p>In addition, it is this legacy of attendance that can make both male and female rush in the south ‘competitive’. Here is a directly lifted quote from the excellent greekchat website. The points about alumni connections and ‘knowing the pledge class before rush’ are equally applicable to fraternities, especially for those considered the more ‘desirable’ chapters.</p>
<p>"I would say that the biggest indicator of how competitive a school’s rush is is how ingrained being Greek at that school has been in the past, and also how legacy (at the university, not sororities) is viewed at the school.</p>
<p>For example, let’s pretend there are two fictional universities that are equal in most aspects. However, since 1900 25% of School 1 has gone Greek, and 15% of their freshman class has had a family member attend the school before. At School 2, only 10% of the school has gone Greek over the years, and 5% of the freshman class has had a family member attend the school before.</p>
<p>At School 1, not only is Greek life HUGE and affects the campus as a whole, but a significant portion of the freshmen already have a built-in social network of connections with alumni. This means more legacies to sororities, more PNMs with connections to the alumni, more PNMs with connections in the current sororities and more PNMs who have been “born to go ABC” since birth. At School 2, there are far fewer legacies and most freshmen are coming in with NO connections to alumni. Not to mention that Greek life is not as important there, so there is not as much pressure to go Greek.</p>
<p>At School 2, an “un-prepared” PNM is going to waltz right in without any hurdles. Maybe her personality will not click with chapters, but rest assured she is not being cut because there were too many legacies or hometown friends. At School 1, even a girl who is well prepared with recs may not stand out enough to get past the throngs of legacies and well-connected PNMs who are vying for a spot in certain sororities. Due to the history of these schools, these “chosen” PNMs may have been on the radar before they even sent their own recs in! If enough sororities have enough legacies and connected PNMs, then the PNM without those connections will have very limited options, hence making recruitment competitive as a whole."</p>
<p>Fraternity life was great for me almost 30 years ago. I attended a large state university which had about 25% Greek presence.</p>
<p>For me, the highlights were intramural sports, the forging of some lifelong friendships, a sense of belonging, good parties, and almost always something to do and someone to do it with.</p>
<p>My five best friends in life resulted from my fraternity experience, all pledge brothers that maintain close contact in spite of living in different places.</p>
<p>The trick with fraternities is to not take them too seriously. Embrace the good and the fun, and back away from the stupid and the jerks. Every fraternity has it’s share of both.</p>
<p>^^All good points, SoccerGirl. I think it really comes down to individual social needs and preferences. I think going Greek is a no-brainer for some kids - they want to belong to a group, they love spending a lot of their time socializing with the same group of friends. There are some real benefits to it. My husband loved his fraternity and still gets together with them on a regular basis.</p>
<p>It’s harder for someone like my son. He is fairly social but also likes his alone time. He doesn’t like to be on the go all the time. He’s happy to be out 3-4 nights a week but he likes being home the other half of the week. I think he’s afraid that there would be a lot of pressure to be out all the time. Of course, dorm life is such that he might want to be out all the time anyway. 
That is why I recommend he waits until after first semester or two to see if going Greek still appeals to him. He’s on the fence. Doesn’t necessarily want to join a fraternity but can see some social benefits to it.</p>
<p>You should find out how the Greeks work at your college. My son has a choice on how many meals per week he eats at his frat house, it can be anywhere from 6 - 9 meals per week. So he does not have to eat all his lunches and dinners there. D will be attending a college where the houses in the “Greek Village” only house about a dozen students each. The vast majority of the Greeks there don’t live in their house, and the houses don’t have meal plans. So the level of commitment and the amount that your social life is “limited” depends on the college and how their system works.</p>
<p>Consolation’s post heartens me because her kid and mine are swimming in the same pond. </p>
<p>There really are huge variations between campuses. I know that the Greek system can be cutthroat in places like UT. Not only is it hard to pledge a sorority, there is also a tiered system within the sororities with some being perceived as more elite than others. </p>
<p>At another campus it will totally low key. Anyone who shows an interest is welcomed. </p>
<p>By all means, rent and watch “Legally Blonde” – Elle Woods is the stereotypical sorority girl with her passion for all things pink – but she’s also one smart, nice cookie. </p>
<p>And isn’t that what you want for your kid? A group that shares some interests and whose membership are smart and nice? I think that’s a fair message to give to a kid: “Join whatever group that shares your interests and has a membership that is known for being bright and kind.” </p>
<p>Parents who are strangers to the “Greek” system should also know that some groups on campus might use Greek letters but not be a Greek organization. “APO” is a service group and Phi Beta Kappa is an honor society.</p>
<p>I can validate Rockvillemom’s post. My son went through the rush and pledge process and it did place a lot of demands on his time, which as a freshman, he hadn’t quite figured out. As a result he did poorly academically in the fall and was upset with himself for allowing the pledgeship to interfere with his goals. He ultimately decided not to join the frat because he felt it would cut him off from making other friends outside the frat. It was one of those experiences that taught him a lot – and forced him to evaluate his priorities (including habitual partying which he came to see gets old, fast) – and so even though it came at a cost, in the long run he learned a lot about himself and made some tough choices. The unfortunate thing is that, at least in his case, the pledge process consumed him so completely that he lost touch with friends he made early in the year that were not pledging. Once he left the frat he was able to re-establish some of the friendships, but it does limit the opportunity to make friends outside the frat.</p>