Freaking out & breaking down- do I even want this?

Applying to College
41

OK, just echoing a statement by @lindagaf directed at my comments. I agree with her, even if you can get into Yale, it might not be the right place for you. Your life happiness will be much more correlated to finding a school with the right “fit” (academically/socially/environment/diversity) than accepting the school that’s highest in some ranking. What I am saying though is, if you’re in the lower income brackets, you will find a better financial deal at the rich elite schools, and there are many of those with different environments, so search around and find a great school for you, and don’t be sold on Yale/Columbia/etc because some ranking says so.

Also, I think there are kids who try too hard to find the school where most people are exactly like them (all hipster, all party, all preppy, all minority, all theater, etc), and you don’t want that either. Life won’t be about being with people exactly like you, so you need some experience dealing with others too. If you have a successful life and career you’ll need to learn how to deal with everybody. That’s why it makes sense for the elite schools to have diversity as a factor in admissions. (it’s not that they’re altruistic, they realize that their status is elevated by diversity, and elevated status translates into elevated tuition!)

42

I was very similar to you in mindset - look into Wellesley. It could be the perfect fit. It has the prestige that you are looking for while simultaneously having an incredible support system of students and faculty.

43

Drexel is TERRIBLE for low-income kids, it doesnt meet need in general but for low-income kids it gaps at insulting levels, like a 34K income family supposed to pay 29K… A low/middle income kid with high stats is better served and gets better ROI at UCincinnati, which is a pioneer in co-ops.
The list above is a good sample though.
NYS colleges are especially good since OP can apply HEOP.
Forget Sarah Lawrence (no need-based aid, doesn’t meet need). Bard doesn’t meet need. Same thing for Stonehill and Duquesne. BC meets need but only if you rent ( strictly speaking, “or if you have low-value real estate”, but that’s impossible in NYC so doesn’t apply to OP). Same thing for Villanova.
Dickinson meets need for almost all, Muhlenberg meets need for all but the bottom 5%, Bryn Mawr, Wellesley, Smith, Barnard, Mount Holyoke (and perhaps Agnes Scott if you apply EA for their big merit scholarship).
Grinnell, Carleton, Macalester, St Olaf, Beloit, Lawrence, are all laid-back and friendly.
Run the Net Price Calculator on all of them.

44

Honestly, you’re very competitive even for the best Ivies.

Let me re-emphasize the point about QuestBridge. For their national college match (which guarantees a full ride+, including books, health insurance, and travel money), you can rank up to 12 schools. If none of them decide to take you, you are NOT rejected! The majority of applicants are not “matched” but are admitted through the later rounds. You get free applications at the 38 best universities and liberal art colleges, and you can apply to all of them for Regular Decision!

I would be completely surprised if one of those colleges did not ultimately admit you, considering you keep up your track record and an earnest application, though I would also encourage you to keep safeties and matches (you have a good list).

Now, you mentioned journalism. I would not encourage you to study journalism unless you were absolutely sure nothing else interested you. The majority of top colleges and universities don’t offer an undergrad program in it (exceptions in QB: Northwestern, Washington and Lee, USC). Furthermore, the journalism arena is highly competitive and a journalism major isn’t particularly needed for it. My friend is working for the NPR from a top liberal arts college, and majored in Public Policy Analysis. It’s much more about the experiences you seek out than the things you study if you want a career in journalism.

Nearly every QB college is superb for political science. It’s kind of difficult to assess what the best is. But let me share a perspective from my political science teacher, who got her PhD from Princeton a few years ago with the coveted graduate teaching award and has taught at Pomona ever since. She gave a wonderful lecture about the powerful experience of a liberal arts college -“count your blessings that you’re at Pomona instead of Princeton”- and has written a book highlighting the best educational model in America- small liberal arts colleges- along with other graduates of HYPS who are also teaching at LACs now. She herself went to Amherst College (a liberal arts college) prior to Princeton. Kind of a bold statement, don’t you think?

I didn’t go to Princeton. I’m sure it’s a wonderful, coveted place with brilliant people and immeasurable resources. But I would be shocked if it were anywhere as nurturing and tight-knit as Pomona. There’s just a different atmosphere at the liberal art colleges. They are supportive in every aspect. The professors are hugely accessible. The administration is immediately receptive. The amount of resources in place to make students thrive is astounding. The students genuinely and deeply care for each other. I think it was telling when I talked to a friend at Columbia about how much I loved my experience at Pomona, but she remarked she found it difficult to believe anyone could be so happy. I heard all of her experiences. Her academic experiences were of course incredible. She had access to world class speakers and lecturers. But there were also the suicides that happened weekly. Their poor mental health support. Their daunting bureaucracy. I was sympathetic, but inside I felt so grateful I had chose a liberal arts college over an Ivy.

Not everyone needs that LAC atmosphere. It can feel unrealistic and restrictive for some. Important to mention- it won’t feel like sunshine and happiness all the time. But it sounds like it’ll be the atmosphere where you will succeed- not at a large, impersonal university that will feel isolating and terrifying. Not to say there aren’t universities that can provide similar experiences. But you’ll find it more readily at liberal art colleges of all sorts.

Niche ranks 2 LACs in the top for political science programs, and 7 in the top 25- right next to well known schools like Yale and Harvard. Check out the source of the most Political science PhDs (https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Top-Producers-Phds-Infographic-e1477252251488.png). They may not be known to you, but they are astounding- many do better than the Ivies in some aspects. Most importantly, they seem like they’ll be a better fit for you. I second those recommending you to check out fly-in programs for these colleges to see if you will like them.

45

missacademy2018, please do not sell yourself short. You have excellent grades, you are in a rigorous curriculum, you have ample ECs plus you are from a single family home and are a member of a minority group. You have a shot at any school you apply to.

Cost/Financial Aid: Typically the selective schools are also the ones that have the greatest endowment and provide the most generous financial aid. A number of the schools you looking to apply even have no load to families making less than $60,000 a year so your entire need (as they determine it) is met with grants. Most of the Ivy League schools and top liberal arts colleges are in this category. Schools like Northeastern, Rutgers and NYU are not. They are just not very generous with aid. However some of those schools will offer merit aid as well, so at this point in the game do not look at cost when evaluating what schools to apply to. Let the admissions come in and see what the financial aid offers are and decide then. It is a great thing to have options. The CollegeBoard has a net price calculator. Complete that, which will then enable you to see, with just a few clicks) your estimated financial aid from dozens of schools, including many of the ones you want to apply to.

What Schools to Consider: As some other posters have mentioned, please include some of the top liberal arts colleges in your list. They provide an education that is as rigorous and good as any ivy league, and usually with much better support for students. By no means does this mean you should NOT apply to the Ivies. Go for it. If I were you I would add Hamilton, Colgate, Smith, Vassar, Wellesley, Wesleyan, Williams, and Amherst to your list. Of this list Smith, Vassar, Wellesley and Wesleyan are likely to be more diverse schools. Nothing can be as good a substitute for how you may fit in than a visit. I know this is tough to do with a full course load during the academic year, but during every break go visit one of more of these schools, when that college is in session. You are not really going there to see just the buildings, but rather the students, who they interact, and if they seem happy etc… You mentioned not wanting to be in 100 person lecture hall. You will experience that at some introductory courses even in the Ivy league schools, but definitely not at any of the liberal arts colleges which tend to limit class size to 40 or less (many with fewer than 20 students). Also, where the liberal arts colleges truly shine is access to the faculty. At the LACs mentioned above you have daily access to your professors. It is not uncommon for a student to walk into their professors office anytime they are there and have them explain things you don’t understand. Plus the at LACs the professor will be the one teaching all classes, no TAs. Apply to all the Ivies. You have nothing to lose. in NYS they have an HEOP program that is designed to provide students from disadvantage backgrounds additional opportunities for acceptance and preparation to ensure they are ready for the rigor. This will provide greater chance of acceptance to Columbia, Cornell, Hamilton, Vassar and Colgate (top schools in NYS). Also, go visit Dartmouth. It is an Ivy and relatively small in size.

Your preparedness for rigorous academics: Again, do not worry about this. No question the academics at any of these top schools is going to be challenging. But if they admit you, that means you can do well there. Yes many of the students attending these schools are brilliant, but there are also many students who are legacies, athletes, from disadvantaged backgrounds that are also there. These schools do a great job of providing additional support to ensure students succeed. You may want to NOT apply to some schools where every college starts out by describing the “intense” academic environment like an MIT or Swarthmore. But other than that I would not worry about doing well. Also, if you have a true favorite, and checked their net price calculator to make sure the estimated award is sufficient, apply Early Decision. It really does improve your odds of acceptance at that school. If you don’t get in or are deferred, apply Early Decision II to your second favorite.

You have worked hard and despite some personal challenges have done well. No one can guarantee that you will be admitted to any one of these schools, however, if you apply to enough of them, you will have the right set of qualifications that some of these schools are looking for the year you apply where you will get in. You should have a few safeties (perhaps Binghamton or Geneseo, but not much more). Applying through QuestBridge is an excellent start. Also, many of these top schools have Multicultural/Diversity overnight visits (usually free). For your top choice schools (3 or 4), find out about these programs and apply to the overnight programs. That will get you in touch with some folks at those schools who will provide you additional assistance/guidance in getting in.

Don’t sell yourself short. You have a lot going for you and you will be an asset for any of the schools you want to attend. Good luck!

46

You’ve received good advice about looking into Questbridge and liberal arts colleges. I’ll bet you will get into a top college (don’t fixate on Ivy League but rather on what is right for you) and have a great experience. As someone from a non-prep school background who now has two prep school kids, I advise you not to worry about the preppies. You could easily be one of them, and you will catch up with whatever you need to. My other piece of advice is GET ENOUGH SLEEP. Everything else will be easier if you do.

47

You have gotten some good advice here. I will add that I think with your background and your stats, you have a good shot at any school in the country, including the Ivies and elite LACs.

I will also add that I volunteered to help an URM girl (Hispanic father/ black mother) with her application 5 years ago who I thought would have a hard time at a school with a reputation for academic challenge. While she attended a decent Westchester, NY high school, she never took an AP class or an honors class, had a 3.0 GPA, a 29 ACT and got into Uchicago. She went despite me counseling her that I thought she’d be miserable. Instead, the university gave her all sorts of accommodations for her learning disabilities, including a note taker in her classes, and she graduated this past June on time and is now working at a leading consulting firm. She loved her experience there. I will never underestimate someone again. As an aside, she wrote her essay about working in McDonalds and how that gave her a filter to understand her mother’s own struggles better. (Another student I helped wrote her essay about her autistic brother and she just graduated from Middlebury.)

I also helped a kid last year with his application to Yale. He applied SCEA and was deferred and then admitted RD. Was a regular, unhooked kid with excellent grades (95 GPA UW) but low scores for Yale (680 M, 720 R, 770 W…old SAT version, so a 1400 M&R…bottom 25%). He got rejected by Columbia and Georgetown but somehow got accepted to Yale with no hooks and no outside high school ECs. He was editor in chief of his paper and a cross country runner. That’s it. He just finished his first semester at Yale and did very well. Like someone upthread said, even just regular kids who aren’t superstars, and who haven’t cured cancer, can succeed in the Ivies.

My advice: continue to do your best; learn to advocate for yourself with your teachers; go for extra help because you will need to do that in college (studies have shown that kids who do perform well); seek help with your application here at this site but also through Questbridge; apply to a well thought out list of schools. And then throw your chips into the game and see how it works out. You have decent stats and you write well. Based on my experience with the kids I’ve volunteered with, I think you have a shot.

48

I can’t add to much more. But I’ll try! That’s why we’re here on CC after all. First, some websites to help you learn about other schools. Keep in mind, that none are perfect, and all are flawed. Still, more information is generally better. When discovering colleges that might fit, you might want to look at colleges.niche.com for their student reviews/opinions and to lesser extent admitster.com (which is better at gauging chances, kinda). Also, consider using Matriculate.org to get free college advising assistance. I don’t know if you satisfy the lower income standard. If you do, it can be a great, personal resource (my son is working for them while in college which is how I know about it).

With that, I will second (or third, or …) the idea that fit is way more important than the concept of prestige. Prestige impresses parents. Whether or you you personally will make the most of any opportunity at a college is more about whether it’s the right school for you. You will be happier and more motivated, and thus achieve and learn more, at schools you actually like, versus schools you THINK you should like.

49

The pressure at elite schools are on average very high because your peers are as strong and competitive as you. Unconditionally, you have an exact 50% chance of outperformance and exact 50% chance of underperformance relative to your peers at an elite school. Are you a somewhat conscious risk taker who is willing to take on this chance? Are you willing to be in peace with yourself if it turns out that your relative performance is less than ideal with respect to your expectation? This is the kind of mental preparation that you probably want to think about in an honest way about whether an elite school is right for you.

50

^^ Why is it unconditionally 50/50?

51

“50/50”: Suppose that the median GPA at Columbia is 3.50. It then follows that 50% of Columbia students would have a GPA no less than 3.50 and 50% of Columbia students would have a GPA no more than 3.50.

Probably not too many of newly enrolled Columbia freshmen would expect that their GPAs would fall into the lower half; after all, they almost always had been doing very well in order to get in. But the realty is that it is always true that a half of them will.

From a typical outsider’s perspective, there is nothing wrong earning a say 3.30 at Columbia. There is nothing wrong to have just ONE major. But that can be an issue for quite a few of students at Columbia when they observe some of their peers taking on 6 courses a semester, doing double degree in the hope that to send out “quality” signal, and are still able to outperform in terms of GPA. This kind of peer pressure is quite real, and how to deal with it is important.

It would be nice for parents to help students manage their expectation and provide support. It would be nice that students anticipate and prepare for cultural shocks.

52

Schools that meet 100% of financial need: http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2016-09-19/colleges-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need