<p>And, a larger point: religion shouldn’t be about discrimination, but inclusion and good, peaceful practices. That is the ideal idea of religion I think that has been lost over the thousands of years.</p>
<p>Just look at the new pope talking on the subject:</p>
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<p>The larger point here is that we are focusing and discriminating based on minute differences and missing the point of religion itself. Do you think that trying so hard to discriminate in the name of a god is a holy thing to do? If you try so hard to discriminate to what, get to heaven or lead a holy life, aren’t you defeating the purpose? Over what? A small passage in a piece of literature written thousands of years ago that also lays out other proclamations such as selling women into slavery (Exodus 21:7) and putting people to death who work on the Sabbeth (Exodus 35:2) among many other terrible things that would be illegal today?</p>
<p>At what point do we admit that religious works are a guide and not a direct manual? Religion can be a great thing, but it gets a bad rap not for its goal, but for the people who use it in the name of discrimination and even genocide.</p>
<p>Well, it seems the world’s largest and fastest growing religion does not see all these gender and gay issues your way. I highly recommend not going into a mosque or walking town the streets of Saudi Arabia et al preaching this stuff. Pretty sure you would not make it out of the building or to the other end of the street.</p>
<p>I will take these religious bigotry threads seriously when the people talking about the bigotry of Christians would openly do the same in front of a mosque or a group of Muslim men. Until then, all I see are people preying on the goodwill of Christians not to cut their heads off. Rather wimpy in my view.</p>
<p>Holy crap, an actual sighting! I thought I was the only one around here. The only thing I would add to describe myself a bit more is the word social - Constitutional social conservative libertarian.</p>
<p>Institutions should not discriminate on the basis of immutable conditions: race. Not ever, period.</p>
<p>But I don’t think it unreasonable for private institutions to set requirements for mutable conditions.
You can change your religion
You can change your sex “assignment” nowadays
You can change your dating habits</p>
<p>Yes, I do believe some people are born gay, but that doesn’t mechanically preclude them from having sex (or not having sex) with those of the opposite sex. Whether you are gay or straight, in the workplace I really don’t want to know about your exchange of bodily fluids…</p>
<p>The transgender “guy” is still genetically a girl, X-X, whether or not he/she has had a “picnic attachment” surgically implanted. If this guy/gal wants to reside in a dorm, he/she should get another surgical procedure to switch back to gal.</p>
<p>If you didn’t notice in the last post, I was pretty supportive of Christianity as an idea. I know many christians who I have great respect for their beliefs and ways of living. Meanwhile, you openly admit to a closed mindset because of a point I barely made, if not went closer to your side on compared to the original poster. Clearly you do not have any intention of challenging your beliefs, but if you feel like it I am always up for a constructive argument rather than resorting to name calling. At least @realtwinkie is addressing the points with some half decent ideas and an open mind.</p>
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<p>You might as well say “I won’t discuss my stealing from the grocery store until all murders are caught first”. No, Christians are not the most bigoted or backward thinkers in the world. In fact, many Christians are the opposite, and many are changing over with the times. But, the vocal conservative christians are here now, and if they are willing to challenge their ideas, are worth the time.</p>
<p>well, unless this transgender guy was born with “grey” chromosomes, he/she should get another surgical procedure to switch back to the original chromosomal gender if he/she wants to reside in the dorm.</p>
<p>I believe “I will take these religious bigotry threads seriously when” implies you aren’t now.</p>
<p>Now, if you want to talk about the issues, you can stop the semantics. Everyone else on this thread has had no problem sticking to the issue and discussing it. You still have yet to discuss much of anything.</p>
<p>Edit: Sorry, I apologize. I misread. Still a good link.</p>
<p>As far as this case goes, I think that is a legitimate discussion to have, about the comfort level of all involved. However, what about CBU? There was no housing issue, but her identity was called a fraud…</p>
<p>^^ But these discussions are just one way. Are you all that blind to see that? These threads become a parody of themselves on how to change Christians. </p>
<p>Hey, but I guess nuke christians from space is your idea of a discussion. Hilarious!! I guess you and your buddy @dividerofzero have a weird idea of fostering discussions and peace. </p>
<p>For the record, never crossed my mind to nuke transgender people from space. What kind of maniac brain does it take to even think like that? That is sick thinking and should not be let to stand. However, I did notice, he would do it from space because he is too wimpy to face them head on.</p>
<p>@awcntdb I would not recommend nuking anyone from space, nor have I here. In fact, once again, I have been very supportive of keeping Christianity in the world. I would appreciate you sticking to the issues and perhaps fully reading the thread.</p>
<p>I am here to bring about a knowledgeable discussion. If someone changes their mind after reviewing the facts, it was all worth it. If I learn something I didn’t know and reconsider my position on something, great. You get both of those only by discussing the ideas calmy. Your attitude is what gives your dissimilar peers the bad name that fosters the unwarranted attacks on Christians, however few there are.</p>
<p>@awcntdb I hope you understand that said part was a joke. I mean, my entire rationale for why there are limits to freedoms is that people can suffer as a consequence.</p>
<p>@BadgerState Affirmative action isn’t mandatory and not every school uses it. Title IX is less of a choice.</p>
<p>I think a solution would be for schools to be clear about their dorm policies and to clearly state that they group students by biological (chromosomal) sex so their intended meaning isn’t questioned.</p>
<p>Beyond that, let’s keep in mind that no one’s attacking freedom of religion. People have different ideas for what it includes just as people have different ideas for what’s moral. We can agree that prayer is cool just like we can agree that murder is wrong but issues like this get fuzzy (even the Hobby Lobby decision set limits on who has what freedoms of religion) so let’s not make this black and white because then we get nowhere.</p>
<p>Beyond that, it’s a personal choice for students as to whether they want to attend certain universities and for universities as to what they do with private funds. The rest is up to external forces. </p>
<p>As for the “Islam” BS in this thread: Partition killed several of my family members as they had to flee Pakistan. Don’t pretend I’m blind to the flaws of every ideology (including my own).</p>
<p>@divideofzero “I think a solution would be for schools to be clear about their dorm policies and to clearly state that they group students by biological (chromosomal) sex so their intended meaning isn’t questioned.”</p>
<p>Sex by definition is chromosomal. It doesn’t matter how you feel, you’re either a male or a female. I can pretend and think I’m a lion, that doesn’t make me a lion. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to decipher clear-cut English on such matters. </p>
<p>@BadgerState That’s like saying “marriage by definition is heterosexual”; it might be clear to you but it’s not clear to everyone, although technically sex is chromosomal so I agree with you as well. But as the sex/gender distinction becomes an issue, it’s just a very simple solution to add a couple more words and make sure everyone knows exactly what you mean.</p>
<p>So let’s not make this a discussion on whether transgender people are just pretending or mentally ill and focus as much as possible on the issue at hand: the interaction of unclear dorm policies with student interests leading to conflict between faculties that disagree with them. A lot of time and pain will be saved if everyone’s clear from the get-go and no one becomes confused and creates conflict.</p>
<p>After all, a lot of words aren’t identified very clearly with their own definitions- take war, for example. Technically we’re not at war but try saying that out loud.</p>
<p>I am sure some applications out there ask for gender rather than sex, and then its a slippery slope of subjectivity. I agree that some sort of standardization of asking would help, maybe even a transgender option so that it is transparent. I mean most schools don’t discriminate based on it, and legal backing against discrimination would help. Most people aren’t very aware of new gender/sex terms and its unfair to assume people do. Hopefully transparency and education will help.</p>
<p>Sex has always been defined one way, since the beginning of mankind. It wasn’t until recently that the definition has been challenged and frankly I really don’t see a need to change the wording when any logical individual can understand it. I don’t acknowledge the whole ‘times change’ argument. </p>
<p>The fact that some schools now provide ‘transgender housing’ is absurd to me. I’m going to demand they have animal housing, because I believe I’m an animal and feel like I was inappropriately assigned to humanity. It’s the same thing. You either have male reproductive systems or male reproductive systems.</p>
<p>@BadgerState “War” has meant one thing, too, since 1787- a military action by the President that’s been authorized by Congress through official declaration. It wasn’t until the 1950’s that the definition has been challenged and frankly I really don’t see a need to change the wording when any logical individual can understand it- we haven’t been at war for 6 decades, after all. I don’t acknowledge the way languages function.</p>
<p>The fact that some people now think that the United States is at “war in Afghanistan” is absurd to me. I’m going to demand they declare War on the Moon, because I believe the moon has WMDs and feel like they’re just covering up the evidence. It’s the same thing.</p>
<p>But let’s be realistic- there is evidence of gender dysphoria- widely studied medically and understood hormonally, because we have science now and that allows us to acknowledge phenomena we’ve ignored since “the beginning of mankind” (in certain Western cultures which to you seem to be the only thing that matter when it comes to epistemology). Yes, if someone initially claimed that they “felt” a different gender than their biological sex, I would’ve drawn that comparison too. However, there is evidence that hormonal anomalies cause people with certain genitalia to develop mentally like people with the other sort of genitalia- or become something in between. There’s absolutely no evidence of “otherkin” or whatever else some Tumblr users use to make themselves feel special and oppressed. There’s a clear line here that allows us to determine whether things are legitimate- the fact is that the mother’s body is capable of supplying an improper hormonal mixture (after all, mothers produce both male and female hormones- but there’s nothing special going on with animal hormones); it’s called science. And I think, after noting the fact that you- as a male- have nipples and an unfortunately high chance of suffering from weird biological (“phantom pain” in your teeth as a result of sinusitis/allergies because of weird placement, hernias as you age because of the way your genitals travel down your body, etc.), you’ll understand that a lot of things can happen during 9 months. Biology isn’t simple, after all.</p>
<p>And seriously, would it kill you to change two words just to avoid causing harm to a certain group of people? I know that you’re personally cisgender- but come on, your experience isn’t the sum of possibility. Saying that your lack of gender dysphoria means it doesn’t exist is like saying your lack of schizophrenia means that too is outside the realm of possibility. </p>
<p>But if you insist on ignorance and discrimination, so be it.</p>