This question is for my son who has to pick courses for 9th grade. He is torn between French & Spanish as he wants to do French but everyone is telling him to take Spanish. What pros & cons do you see in taking French? He is a high achiever like his sister and for now seems to be aiming for prestigious and selective schools. I’m guessing in era of Spanish, Mandarin, Hindi and Arabic, not many students bother with French?
Assuming neither is in danger of being dropped by the school (if the language has only one teacher close to retirement and there is only one section of each level that is underenrolled, that could be a risk), then whichever is of greater interest to him is fine. Spanish is common in some places, while French is common in other places.
I think language is a class that you do so much better in if you have actual interest in the language. imo, having four or more years of language is more important than which language for prestigious schools. I have one that is in 5th year of French (took French I in 8th grade), a couple that took four of Spanish (disliked every second) and another that really enjoyed Mandarin. The one that took French has gone on to study 4 other languages during HS in classes and study outside of her HS. The two that enjoyed their languages will continue them in college/life, the two that chose based on it being the “practical language” are done with it. imo, take the language you like. The use and marketability of the language varies greatly depending on which direction a person takes. We can’t forecast it all for our kids, let them enjoy classes when they can.
I’d recommend learning whatever language he feels will help him best throughout life.
Take whatever you like.
Anecdotal evidence seems to show Spanish is the 'default ’ choice for many American students meaning there are a lot of Spanish learners who aren’t interested in the class, and cursory review of high school textbooks seems to indicate more is expected from French learners in terms of critical thinking or metacognitive abilities. (you can compare a first year textbook easily and it’s pretty clear.)
This may also be due to the fact that, for a long time, French was the 'aspirational ’ language (this has changed a bit but French never was a 'default ’ choice).
On the other hand, unless you live in NYC, NOVA /DC, Maine, New Hampshire, upstate New York, specific areas in certain big cities or college towns, or Louisiana, you won’t encounter many French speakers whereas once you’ve reached level 3-4 you’ll easily find people with whom to converse in Spanish regardless of where you live.
You may also want to see if your high school offers AP French or AP Spanish, or if a local college offers intermediate classes (typically called “201,202…” or something along those lines) so that the students can accelerate or ready a high level of need be. (college foreign language 1= high school level 1-2, then each subsequent college semester is about equal to one high school level.)
Finally, for a student who’s gifted in languages, there’s no prohibition on ‘doubling up’ , for instance taking level 4 in FL1alongside level 1 in FL2, then AP FL1+ level 2 FL2.
The choice of French or Spanish will make no difference in terms of college admissions. Let him take whichever he prefers.
I don’t decide which courses they take, it’s his decision to make. I just give my input. French isn’t among top 10 most spoken languages and French only has one AP compared to 2 APs in Spanish and Spanish being number one if you count mandarin and Cantonese separately, not as Chinese.
Spanish would be more worldly choice and boost GPA but then again if he isn’t enjoying it then learning a language turns into an annoying chore.
Beware that the second ap Spanish is very, very hard and specialized. It’s often taken as a 4th year classes by students who could enroll in Spanish for native speakers 1+2 freshman and sophomore year, and then took AP Spanish junior year. Its curriculum is stricter than AP English literature and just as difficult. Don’t choose based on that class - your son may not be able or willing to take it.
Don’t think in terms of 'most-spoken language '. It’s pointless since the odds of actually needing language ranked 1 or 3 for study abroad, business, graduate school, travel, are totally different from that list.
For general education, any language is fine. The idea is to introduce some ability to understand how language functions as well as present other ways of living and thinking.
Professionally, you can either start in college or get a head start in secondary school. But what you’ll need with vary greatly. For example SCM would benefit from Chinese. Math grad school from French and/or Russian. IR from French and Arabic. Medicine from Spanish (unless you can use your French to learn Kreyol at a community education center, as it’s in demand.)
It’s impossible to know for an 8th grader so you can just think that whichever language has the best teacher will teach him 'how to learn a language ’ and he’ll adjust once he knows what he’s supposed to learn.
He took some Spanish & French as part of elective exploration units in 7th & 8th grades. He has a good idea about his natural preference for French but he is trying to weigh other factors.
It sounds like the adults/others want him to take something else. He likes French, take French.
From your posts, it is apparent he likes French while you like Spanish. The real decision is who gets to make the decision.
In fact, I’m supporting him. He is the one who can’t decide and weighing it. I’m part French so I want him to learn French.
Well, if you’re part French, you can probably take him to France or Quebec easily to visit relatives, thus speeding his learning, perhaps allowing him to skip levels or get much better understanding culturally than is “typical” for just-classroom learning, so it’d make sense to pick that language… If his level is already fluent, he can jump into whatever level is appropriate (you and he would need to meet with the French teachers there) and once he’s reached a strong level (like Ap-1) he could take Spanish 1+2 if he has space in his schedule.
BW do you know “Sixty Million Frenchmen can’t be wrong”? It’s a bit old but it’s a fun read that’s backed with serious work. I also liked the update “The Bonjour Effect”. Also kinda old but fun read, Paris to the Moon.
You’re posting this in College Admissions. So, I assume that part of your calculus is whether French or Spanish would be more beneficial in admissions. In my experience, no admissions committee cares about the selected language. They care about achievement, and for those students interested in a particular language or linguistics, what have they done with it.
At the same time, I think I see what you’re saying. It’s about seeing what might be more useful in 4 years. There’s no way of knowing. I took Russian in college. No opporunities for me, although it made me very skilled in watching gymanstics. And well, now, it has some value, if I remembered more than curse words. This is my silly way of saying that for college admissions, I don’t think the choice of language studied in HS matters very much in general. To put this another way, if your son is or might be interested in say, existentialism, then being fluent in French and reading Sartre and Camus in its original language can be quite useful. Or French/Comparative lit. Just saying.
On a different note, being a native speaker, you can probably help his language skills even more in French. That’s something to consider too.
That aside, your son wants French. Perhaps that’s your influence. Even if it is, who cares? It’s a beautiful language. So is Spanish. Now, if your question is about what language might be more beneficial/useful after college, that’s a different discussion.
From first-hand experience, I agree with @MYOS1634
While true, many of the top 10 languages are ones that are not offered in American High Schools and are very very geo-specific.
French, however, is spoken in more countries than top-10 languages like Hindi, Punjabi, Portuguese, or Russian. Additionally, French has a strong canon of literature, a strong film industry, and awesome cuisine. Of course, each of these reasons also apply to Spanish.
As others have said, your son will not go wrong with either. He should choose whichever one interests him more.
Spanish, particularly in the US, is not a language that will diminish in importance. As for the other three cited, a generation ago a parent might have asked “I’m guessing in era of Spanish, Russian, and Japanese, not many students bother with French?” Not that many schools offer Japanese and Russian anymore, so there is no guarantee that any language will remain the flavor of the moment.
For the record, nobody in my immediate family speaks French, so we are of no help to him. My French roots are a gift from a great grandma who was 25% French.
I learned Spanish in high school, Russian and German in college. Russian became important to my teaching and research career. My wife studied French and Latin in high school, French and Russian (and a bit of German) in college. She spent her junior year abroad in France. We met in graduate school, in a class in Russian studies! I am so glad we had that language interest in common! First because we never would have met at our huge graduate university if not for our shared interest in Russian society and culture. Second because when we travel abroad in Europe we can make do in several languages at least at a basic functional level.
Let language be fun. Take one you’re interested in. Then take another. Don’t think about the choice simply from the pragmatic standpoint. There are great literatures to explore. And knowledge of foreign languages really helps us to use our native language well.
Spanish, you live in an English and Spanish -speaking country.
The student should pick whichever one he feels most comfortable and and gain the most proficiency in 3-4 years he’ll be studying it in HS.
I wouldn’t recommend tailoring it for future career factors…especially grad school as foreign language requirements vary greatly depending on field…and some may require multiple foreign language competencies.
There may also be differing emphasis areas of language proficiency. For instance, PhD programs tend to lean much more on mastery of reading/translation knowledge whereas many business areas…especially sales/marketing tend to learn more towards conversational/public speaking proficiency.
- For example, if one's interested in studying modern Chinese history/politics at the PhD level, one needs to not only be proficient in reading modern Chinese, but also master reading classical Chinese along with being proficient in Japanese(lots of archival/primary and secondary sources related to field) and at least one European foreign language such as French(archival/primary and secondary sources).
It’s also not limited to foreign/international studies. For instance, one grad classmate who was studying US History at the PhD level had to have proficiency in French and Spanish because of subfield area he was examining.
This is a rather less likely scenario than “one may travel around the US, particularly in some regions, and one may interact with many persons who only speak Spanish, and benefit from being able to converse with them”.