French Student in need of Information on US Universities

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hello Everyone !</p>

<p>I'm new Here !
I'm a French young man, studying Law @ Nice/Sophia-Antipolis University, in 2nd year.</p>

<p>My Study's Project is to specialize ASAP in Intellectual Property, I tried in a law firm and liked it !</p>

<p>Next year (for the 3rd year) I plan to leave to the USA through my university's program (because of Financial reasons, you can't imagine how lucky we are about studies' costs in France).
It's throught the ISEP Program, so I have a limited number of universities where I can go, and now twice limited 'cause of the registration's deadlines n' other restrictions....
I have to apply to 10 universities.</p>

<p>But it's really hard to choose between 50 universities or thereabout when, You don't know at all how they are !
how is the area around (I've never been to the US)!
What's their "quality of living" !
What's their reputation !
The Diploma isn't the matter 'cause I'll only get the Nice University's diploma.
I just want to spend a nice year, away from France in the best conditions. </p>

<p>So far I choosed, through various rankings, the universities that are the best ranked and avalaible:</p>

<p>-University of Iowa
-Lousiana State University
-University of Kentucky
-University of Idaho
-University of West Virginia
-University of Montana</p>

<p>I wonder if someone studies, studied or know someone who studies there ?
If She/He could give a lil' some information !
So far I nearly have nothing else of the chool advertisement.</p>

<p>Also, I have 4 other universities to choose.
Universities I've chosen are in the Lands....
And I'm getting a little afraid of being really bored during the free time left.
Exept Hiking, trekking and some other outdoors activities.... not a lot of things to do, and travelling maybe harder.</p>

<p>So I was wondering if someone could give a hand to find a good (not too bad at least) university closer to the shores.
These are the remaining Universities, in Coastal states:</p>

<p>-Willamette University (Oregon) (don't know if on the university is on the coast)</p>

<p>-North Carolina Consortium :
• NC-Appalachian State
• NC-Central University
• NC-East Carolina
• NC-NC State
• NC-NCAT
• NC-UNC Asheville
• NC-UNC Charlotte
• NC-UNC Greensboro
• NC-UNC Pembroke
• NC-UNC Wilmington
• NC-Western Carolina
• NC-Winston-Salem</p>

<p>-Mars Hill College (North Carolina)
-Randolph-Macon College (Virginia)
-San Diego State University (California)
-San Jose State University (California)
-Frostburg State University (Maryland)
-Westminster College (Pennsylvania)
-St. Lawrence University (New York)</p>

<p>If someone knows about these or better is studying or studied there, I'd be really glad if You, She/He could give me more information or critics, just to help me to make a righter choice...</p>

<p>Well, sorry if this message is bit long, I really hope someone could help me to solve this. </p>

<p>I thank You all in Advance !!!!</p>

<p>Au revoir à Tous !</p>

<p>Uriel</p>

<p>PS : All my apologizes if my english sounds very weird or just barely understandable... I'm a native french speaker and You All know about our reputation....</p>

2

<p>Pas de probleme! </p>

<p>First, its important to understand your situation. In the United States, Law School is a professional degree which is obtained after the 4 year undergraduate degree (B.S., B.A. B.F.A., B.B.A etc.) Are you looking to be admitted to a US Law School? What limited knowledge I have of that is that only US citizens can be admitted to a US Law School for a J.D. degree because you must be a US citizen to sit for the bar examination. That being said, there are specialized LL.M programs for foreign law students and exchange programs, but normally they are for a higher level of law specialization for foreign lawyers. Or, are you looking to be admitted to an undergraduate program in the United States, where citizenship is not an issue (but you must have a student visa). </p>

<p>Next, the schools you first listed were actually listed in an order of relative ranking, in my opinion. Iowa and Kentucky are the best of that lot. Iowa is a fine school and very rigorous. LSU gives you that Lousiana creole experience, but dont expect many Louisianans to speak french, as its a dying culture. Most are just good southerners. </p>

<p>As for the UNC system, there is a CLEAR pecking order for them in prestige (and rigor). Only UNC-Chapel Hill has a law program/law school. But again, admission there is for people who already have their undergraduate degrees and you would be restricted to the LLM program for foreign students. </p>

<p>The United States has over 3,000 colleges and universities. Your choices are somewhat "random" and there does not appear to be a method to your "madness" (that is a joke). </p>

<p>UNC-Chapel Hill is the top of the UNC system.
NC State is next.
Followed by Appalachian State, UNC-Asheville, UNC-Wilmington, UNC-Charlotte, UNC-Greensboro, East Carolina, Western Carolina, Winston Salem State, NC A &T, UNC-Pembroke, North Carolina Central.</p>

<p>Get a hard copy of the Petersens', Fiske, or Barron's College Directory for 2009 (available at large bookstores in the US like Barnes and Nobles and Borders) which I am certain you can purchase online. They are LARGE books that describe every college in the United States, the admissions standards, admission rates, and cost, as well as lifestyle, clubs, activities, athletics.</p>

<p>Going to university in the United States is a unique experience because it is more than just taking classes and taking examinations. Its a social event, learning to grow, learn and share among fellow students, becoming tolerant of others and also "finding yourself" and what kind of person you want to be as an adult. Its a complex process of studying, attending class, socializing, going to football and basketball games (or other sport), eating in the cafeteria, living in dormatories or fraternities, meeting people from all socio-economic backgrounds and political persuasions. Most colleges admit foreign students on a limited basis. But they are out there. Some colleges are better than others in assimilating foreign students into the campus culture. </p>

<p>You should know that the United States, despite our very mobile and transient society, is very "individualistic" and the different regions of the country are quite different for culture, language (the different accents of our American English), food, sometimes religion. North is not South and East is not West. If you understand my point of view. But there are students from every region of the country at most every college, if that also makes sense. Diversity is prized on most college campuses.</p>

<p>Pick 15 colleges. Write to all of them. Narrow your list down to 10 or fewer and apply to them. Watch out for deadlines! They are FAST approaching for fall semester of 2009! Some as early as January! Most colleges get THOUSANDS of applications and yet admit much fewer, but it really varies from school to school. The more prestige, the lower the admission rate. But you should pick where you think you will be happiest and can thrive.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

3

<p>salut,</p>

<p>je suis super contente de pouvoir enfin parler francais! je suis aussi francaise mais je vis aux etats - unis depuis que j'ai 5 ans, et j'en ai 17! donc je suis completement assimilee a la culture americaine et d'ailleurs je ne vais en france que tous les 5 ans environ. tout ca pour te dire que je peux te donner des renseignements sur les universites de florida uniquement car j'habite a miami et je suis d'ailleurs moi aussi entrain de postuler pour plusieurs university "out of state". mais je vois que tu n'ai pas interesse par la floride! pourtant uf, fsu,et ucf sont tres bien cote aux etats-unis.. bon je suis contente de parler francais... a bientot sur cc!</p>

4

<p>Thanks a lot Nocousin for your precisons and for this really fast reply !!!</p>

<p>In facts, as I wrote it, I'm leaving through my University (here in France), through the ISEP program, which gathers, roughly, 100 Universities. Also not all of them have a Law school/college, so my choice is already quite reduced. Moreover not a lot of these are Very reknown, only a very few of them are listed in the Web ranking in the first 500 Universities (Mine is and I'd reather like to go in one that ain't to bad ranked).</p>

<p>In facts, and I forgot to precise this, I'm in 2nd year which means undergraduate, and I'll leave for graduation year. In france Law studies are like this : 1st-3rd year = license; 4th-5th = Master 1 & 2; and finally 6th-8th/9th = Doctorat (= looks like Phd).
You can attend to the Grand Oral to become a lawyer at the end of your 4th year.
Also, there's only one way to do law studies in France, and only 2 ways to begin
-when you have your high school graduation : premi</p>

5

<p>Honestly, given the French structure and that you will focus on all law for several years, I would not so much worry about academic quality of the school and go for a fun year getting to know a nice part of the US.</p>

<p>On that basis I would choose San Diego State. It's no Grand Ecole, but it's in a fabulous city and you can study almost anything. After that I'd look at UNC Charlotte, a great town and good jumping off point to explore the East Coast.</p>

<p>since none of the schools are Harvard quality, I'd hate to see you stuck in W. Virginia or Iowa (no offense meant to anyone!).</p>

6

<p>Thanks hmom5 for these wise information,
I'm thinking about that too ;)</p>

<p>Bst rgds</p>

<p>Uriel</p>

7

<p>Most colleges and universities will have an outdoor club or hiking group that organizes camping trips and rock climbing trips. Perhaps you won't see a lot of the states but you can get to know an area in depth.</p>

<p>We don't have as many cheap discount airlines. Seeing many parts of the states could get expensive. Probably the California universities would have the best air service.</p>

<p>Iowa has its own special beauty. It's subtle.</p>

8

<br>


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<p>Not on the coast. Willamette U. is in Salem - perhaps a little more than a one hour drive from the coast. And the Oregon coast is nothing like the California beach/surfing coast. The Oregon coast is very scenic, but it's often cold, overcast, foggy, and rainy there. If you are looking for a real fun-in-the-sun beach experience, try UC Santa Barbara or places farther south from there.</p>

9

<p>I understand that law studies in France are largely an undergraduate exercise and you commence doing them after high school. That is NOT the case in the United States. So you will only be considered for undergraduate studies, not law school. How that works out for you in France is another problem that you have to solve over there, as schools here have no interest and no knowledge of the French university systeme.</p>

<p>My question to you is this: where were you born, and what is your nationality and what passport do you carry? </p>

<p>You have to disclose all of the above to United States universities and the United States Department of State. </p>

<p>A lot of people here will talk about the social scene at various universities, but frankly while that is important and a part of the US college experience, the bottom line is that you must attend class, write papers, take examinations and pass each course or OUT YOU GO. They flunk students with regularity.</p>

<p>You must apply to each school individually and pay the fees and then have a resource to pay the tuition and room/board. If you dont have the money, you wont be admitted, as financial aid is not given to foreign students. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

10

<p>Hi nocousin, </p>

<p>First of all, thanks to everyone for your replies.</p>

<p>Then :</p>

<p>--1-- I'm french, born in France and holding a french passport. I am applying to a student passport (through university again) </p>

<p>--2-- Attending to courses, writing papers and taking exam are simply and solely what we do here, so no change on that point.</p>

<p>--3-- For the cost, it's a bit special since I go through something half prepared :</p>

<p>-I'll pay the fees of my french University : hardly more than 400 euros per year (when I told you we are very lucky about studies here)</p>

<p>-then the programm fees : 3000 euros per semester
so school, dorm/room and food will be paid (as they say).</p>

<p>-The rest is not included (they seem to mean : extras, ...)</p>

<p>--4-- Then, if I rightly understand you, I'm undergraduate, I cannot apply to a JD or law school.
So :
- What Do I have to look for ? a "college of Law" ?
- Are the Courses I can take listed as Undergraduate ? something else ?
- is there ready-made programs for undegraduate where courses are already chosen ? (like in France)</p>

<p>I'm getting lost, and they're not very talkative at the UNSA. It's been years that no law student have left for US as undergraduate, most that are doing so are "Economy & Social Sciences "students...</p>

<p>Can you give me some more precisions on these points ?</p>

<p>Thank You in advance</p>

<p>Bst rgds</p>

11

<p>Correct. You cannot apply and cannot attend an American Law School. First, since you are a French citizen and cannot sit for any state bar examination (License to practice law in the United States, which is given by each state individually and varies according to state law), and second because you have not yet obtained an undergraduate degree. (There are some exceptions even for that in the United States, but generally 99% of law schools require an undergraduate degree before admitting anyone to law school for the professional degree, Juris Doctorate (JD). </p>

<p>Applying to an undergraduate degree in the United States is cumbersome. It requires SAT scores/ACT scores (some exceptions to that, but very few), your current college transcript, your baccalaureate transcript (high school), recommendations from a school counselor, recommendations from two professors or teachers, and completing the entire application and questionaire, including two essays. Then you must be able to pay for it. All of this is common in the United States for foreign students and I strongly recommend you contact the schools you have an interest in and they can help you. You can telephone them if you wish, and ask for the admissions office. They dont speak french so you MUST speak English. If you can't speak English, you will not even be accepted. Period. </p>

<p>But you also need to know what you want to study as a major. IN the United States we often take core curriculum classes for a year or more, until we reach our major area of study and possibly a minor area of study. Sometimes there are double majors. That is a LOT of work. And you must find the 5 schools you are MOST interested in and where you think you have the best chance of being accepted and the ability to pay for it. So get the Petersen's, Fiske, or Barron's Directory of Colleges IMMEDIATELY and go through and pick your college. </p>

<p>Some colleges have deadlines of January for applications to be COMPLETED. Some have later dates in February and March. Generally, the most prestigious schools have early dates and the second tier or third tier schools have later deadlines. But not all, so you must check each school individually.</p>

<p>You should know its highly competitive and MILLIONS of American High School graduates apply to college every year. Some schools are incredibly competitive and have a very low admission rate, even as low as 9%. Some schools are much more open and have easier access, like an acceptance rate of 75%. It varies from school to school.</p>

<p>Simply being "French" is not going to cut it. They get applications from all over the world and reject most of them. They accept fewer foreign students and reserve most of the admission seats for Americans. Even Canadians face the same daunting statistics.</p>

<p>And I am sure they want to know your reasons and how you think you can contribute to their university or college in a positive way and what you plan on doing with your education when you finish. </p>

<p>Do some have more relaxed "exchange programs?" Yes. These are programs that you do not technically matriculate as an undergraduate on a path to a degree from THAT school, but are simply visiting for a year and will take your credits (and experience) back home to France and finish your degree at home from your French university. </p>

<p>You must inquire with schools about that.</p>

12

<p>In the U.S., law school is a post-graduate degree; very few schools offer "pre-law" programs for undergraduates, and it is not considered necessary. Students who go to law school after their B.A. degrees (4 year college programs) often studied Political Science, or English (literature), or Philosophy, or History -- subjects involving reading and analyzing texts. Or they studied Economics, or...really anything...science, social science; there are even probably a fair number of French majors who go on to law school. So you would be spending a year studying your choice of subjects, and probably nothing called "law" or "pre-law." There are not preset programs here (except maybe for engineering). That means that any one of the colleges on your list would work for you equally well academically. So then, you should consider where you would like to live. The coasts are more cosmopolitan and diverse in population, as a general rule. Iowa, Idaho, Montana, West Virginia, Kentucky are generally more conservative and less diverse socially than, let's say, San Jose or San Diego. Of the schools you have listed, I, as a Calfornian, would choose San Diego -- beautiful town, great weather, diverse, fairly cosmopolitan. San Jose would be ok too. If you have choices in New York or Massachussets, they would be worth considering for the same reasons.</p>

13

<p>Apart from what you are planning to do, which to someone in the U.S. sounds like "junior year abroad" (US schools have 4 year undergraduate programs; the third year is the "junior year" and students often study in France or Germany, etc. for a semester or a year), United States law schools often offer one-year programs for international students -- the degree is an LLM degree; I think that is something to consider only after you finish a law degree in your own country, though. Top US law schools, including Yale and University of California, Berkeley, offer this degree.
Here is the description for Yale's program: "Students from all over the world come to Yale Law School to deepen their understanding of the law. The LL.M. program is truly global—both in the breadth of resources available through Yale Law School and in the composition of its student body. In 2007-08, for example, the 25 LL.M. students came from 19 different countries."</p>

14

<p>Looking at the ISEP list of schools, you might want to consider Pitzer College and University of the Pacific in California. Pitzer is a small school (a "liberal arts college") that is part of a group of first-rate liberal arts colleges (Pomona, Claremont-McKenna, Harvey Mudd) just outside of Los Angeles. You would have a lot of choices for courses and access to a major U.S. city; it is near the mountains and the beaches of Southern California. University of the Pacific is in Stockton, which is not so great a town, but is very close to San Francisco; the Bay Area (the area around San Francisco Bay) is a wonderful place to spend time.
In Massachussets, Hampshire college is listed as an ISEP school. It is also a small college that is part of a group (consortium) of first-rate colleges (Amherst, Smith, Mt. Holyoke are part of the group). It is very innovative, though it might be a bit isolated on the campus itself.
Another small, good college on the list is Beloit, in Wisconsin. It probably gets very cold there.
You can find out about these colleges by looking at the posts on the "colleges" forums.
In terms of cost, the state colleges in California (San Diego State and San Jose State) are far less costly than the others; I assume you would not be expected to pay the full cost -- which could be up to $50,000 a year!
Oh, and don't worry about being bored at any of these schools -- there is a lot to do for fun and recreation at all US colleges!</p>

15

<p>Hi Everyone !</p>

<p>After a long time of silence (my exams were in the middle) .</p>

<p>I've Made my choice.
The French system drop you in Law and make of you a real specialized lawyer in 4 or 5 years (+2 to get the compulsory legal-Job experience..... blablabla )
I mean You have intensive law courses from the 1st year to the Master I/II year (4/5th one), and solely so.
Just a little bit of "Science Politique" in between, but that's the only not-Law subject we have.</p>

<p>So, my university compels me to follow minimum 4 of the 6 fundamental courses I would have followed here...
I had to forget all my hopes of Pitzer, St Lawrence, or even San Diego State University....
None of their courses were matching with those I needed to take, usually too general(for all the Pre-Law) or not offered.</p>

<p>So, I took Louisiana State University, University of Iowa, University of Kentucky and University of Idaho.</p>

<p>I want to thank everyone for their Help !!!!</p>

<p>CC has really good forums !</p>

<p>Thanks a Ton !,</p>

<p>Best Regards to everyone !</p>

<p>Uriel H.R.S. B.</p>

<p>PS : Happy January 20th, Bonne Chance </p>

16

<p>il en aura besoin!!!!</p>

17

<p>After you finish your law degree, if you are still interested in studying in the US, you could consider applying to a US law school in an LLB program -- UC Berkeley and Yale, among others, have these programs; these are very prestigious law schools and you would be located in wonderful areas.
Good luck!</p>

18

<p>Thanks Mamenyu, </p>

<p>but I don't know (and think) I have good enough grades to apply to such great University</p>

<p>Anyway, I'll keep this in mind !
Even if I don't believe it, I have to admit I'm usually very lucky ;)</p>

<p>Thanks a lot again !</p>

<p>Best Regards !</p>

<p>Uriel_HRS</p>

<p>PS : On lui souhaite toute la chance du monde, car on veut qu'il change le monde !
Sacr</p>