Freshman son rattled about Organic chemistry may give up med school.

I have heard the book “Organic Chemistry as a Second Language” recommended highly.

Stanford is on the quarter system. Its standard first year chemistry sequence is:

31A (5 units): general chemistry
31B (5 units): general chemistry
33 (5 units): organic chemistry

Note that 15 quarter units = 10 semester units, if you want to compare the “size” of the courses to those at other schools.

Optional:

31AC and 31BC (1 unit each): supplements to 31A and 31B for students with weaker high school chemistry background
31X (5 units): for students with stronger high school chemistry, physics, and math background (replaces 31A and 31B)

http://chemistry.stanford.edu/academics/undergraduate-program/major
https://explorecourses.stanford.edu/search?q=CHEM&page=1&collapse=

So a frosh student at Stanford taking the standard first year chemistry sequence starting in the fall should be in CHEM 33 (organic chemistry) now.

Also, there are some other schools where the standard chemistry sequence (for pre-meds and biology majors, at least) introduces organic chemistry in the second semester course, rather than waiting until the third semester course.

Let him decide for himself (although if his grades are too low, that may end up making the decision for him).

If S fails or gets a D, he will have to retake the class for med school purposes. Med schools would average the two grades. If S withdraws, it would still have to be reported on med school app. Neither situation would be fatal to his chances for med school by itself, but S would need to have a very serious talk with himself and with his counselor about what he needs to do going forward if he still wants to pursue an MD degree. Getting an MD degree after ochem only gets exponentially harder. And as others have said there are plenty of areas to pursue in health care besides MD. Good luck

If that organic class is his only blemish, then he should take the organic chemistry classes at a community college. That’s what I did, but it was out of necessity (full time employment and schedule conflicts).

Organic chemisty is easy compared to the demands of medical school, residency and the practice of medicine. If he is unwilling to tough it out now, then he should pursue another career track.

DO schools do grade replacement.

At the University of Michigan, almost ALL freshmen chemistry students take organic chemistry; it’s the first chemistry class they take. They’ve been doing it this way since 1989…even though most students in the lab have no prior lab experience

I believe DO schools have ended grade replacement policy.

“but it doesn’t matter, because most doctors never use math, or chemistry, ever again after school . . . she thinks they’re pretty pointless unless one is going into pharmacology.” Sorry, I don’t think this is accurate, and if it is, then I’m appalled (but it would explain most of my bad experiences with doctors). I would think knowledge of chemistry would be an integral part of a doctor’s practice of “medicine”. Am I missing something?

DO programs no longer allow grade replacement.

AACOM announced in January that it will no longer permit grade replacement–
see: [AACOM Notice of Repeat Coursework Policy Change](http://www.aacom.org/become-a-doctor/applying/notice-of-repeat-coursework-policy-change)


Ochem is tough class. Even if your son passes with C, he may need to repeat unless he has very strong understanding of the fundamental concepts of the class. Ochem 2 builds and expands upon the material mastered in Ochem 1. Getting a C in Ochem is not fatal to med school aspirations, but it is a warning that the student may be have the academic skills/abilities needed to be a successful pre-med--the coursework only gets tougher from here. A

There are a lot of pre-meds in college because it's an easy answer to the question "what do you want to do with your life?" It sounds impressive & noble and it's a whole lot more palatable than saying "I have no idea".  

Medical school is just one option for someone wanting a medical career.

Here’s a website that lists a variety of medicine-related careers: [Explore Health Careers](https://explorehealthcareers.org)

(Including mine–I got weeded out by ochem back in the day even though I wasn’t a pre-med. I graduated with an English degree and eventually became a medical librarian.)


But I agree with everyone else above--this is decision your son needs to explore and make for himself. 

BTW, if he decides not to pursue pre-med right now, that's OK. It's not a irrevocable decision. Med school will still be option for him if he decides to come back to it later. There are special pre-med post-bacc programs for career-changers.

However, these can be expensive, and they presumably exist because medical schools frown on taking pre-med courses at community colleges (most pre-med courses are frosh/soph level courses that are available at community colleges).

My D did very well in Chemistry in high school with 5 in AP Chem and 800 in SAT2, however, she also found Orgo to be very challenging in her freshmen year. I think she ended up getting B+/B in Orgo I/II after curved which was a relief already. But it did not stop her from choosing ChemE major. Physic 1 and 2 are also typical weeding classes.
Chem 1/2 and Orgo I/II are very different things. I don’t really see retaking Chem 1/2 would help Orgo much.

Career changer post-baccs offer at private colleges can be quite expensive; however, those offer through state Us are not.

Here’s a searchable database of post-bacc programs: [AMCAS Postbaccalaureate Pre-medical Programs](https://apps.aamc.org/postbac/#/index)

And one can always do a “do-it-yourself” career changer post bacc (full or part time) at a local public college. (It’s what D1 did; she’s now a 3rd year resident in her chosen specialty at brand name Ivy hospital.)

Post-bacc CC classes are acceptable to some medical schools, but not all of them. And all med schools will be more open to accepting post-bacc CC classes if the student has very strong uGPA (3.7+) to begin with.


[QUOTE=""]
I am pretty sure that some people who don't make it to medical school go into other specialties such as radiology or PT or PA or something that I don't even know exists (

[/QUOTE]

@DadTwoGirls

A Radiologist is a physician who went to med school, internship, residency, and likely a fellowship.

My soon-to-be med school graduate son just matched into Radiology as his specialty…so, for sure, you have to go to med school first.

Are you thinking of a rad tech? Lol. So, very not the same thing.

@mom2collegekids, I have an ole high school friend post on fb her son is now a radiologist since he graduated from a vocation school and got his limited radiologic technologist cert.

I had so inform her only physicians are radiologist. :wink:

^^^
:open_mouth: Oh my!

The difference is about 10+ years of education.

But radiology tech is a GREAT job…if you like that kind of work. Around here…starting pay is quite,high…and if you take some specialty courses…your pay can well,exceed $100,000 a year.

@NosyCaliparent

Your son is at Stanford. Likely this is the first time he’s ever struggled in a class and his confidence is taking a small beating.

If he ends up with a B or C, it’s not the end of the world.

Get those two Organic Chemistry as a Second Language books and have him read them over the summer. One is for Ochem II. Then if he does well in Ochem 2, I don’t think he’ll be out of the premed game at all.

^ This is good advice.

But one thing to realize–even though you don’t need organic chemistry in medical school (only on the MCAT), med school is a longgggg slog of science studying.

As a med student who has numerous friends who wish they didn’t come to med school, I suggest your son do some serious shadowing of RESIDENTS (not just attending physicians) in different fields to see what the lifestyle is like for several years.

You don’t need to enjoy organic chemistry to be a good doctor, but you need to be able to find some enjoyment out of many years of serious science studying, or it’s going to be very painful.