Freshman son was doing well at a tough college but has run into a buzzsaw called Organic chemistry. He is thinking about not going the pre-med route due to this. I don’t know his final grade but where do you draw the line between telling your kid to tough it out or maybe think about something else(for example if he fails the class)?
Lots of kids wash out of the pre-med track. And for good reason, it is really hard. Orgo is also often the point where kids get beyond material they saw in HS to new material to them. If he gets a poor grade, then he may not have an option – even if he passes, he could still have a low grade that hurts his med school chances.
I don’t think you should tell your kid to “tough it out”. He needs to decide his career path for himself. If my kid got, say, a C, I’d suggest they take the second class in the sequence (I assume there are two), then decide about continuing in pre-med.
Organic Chemistry is indeed the buzzsaw of pre-med (or perhaps the third rail). If he pulled off a B or even a C I would say “congratulations”, and assume that medical school is still on the table. If he fails the class then probably he should talk to his advisor.
As I get older I seem to be more likely to be going into a hospital to get tests done. When I get there I see lots and lots of medical professionals. Apparently relatively few of them are doctors or nurses. There are a LOT of other medical professionals. I am pretty sure that some people who don’t make it to medical school go into other specialties such as radiology or PT or PA or something that I don’t even know exists (even if I have been treated by them). Of course, some people who don’t make it to medical school become software engineers or high school science teachers or something else.
Having trouble with organic chemistry is normal. Pre-med is tough.
You don’t have to do premed in college to go to medical school. You can major in anything. Of course at some point, between college and med school, he would have to take organic chem.
I think it is important to try to enjoy undergrad and explore interests without a rigid adherence to career goals. I just want to say that he can do that- explore and free himself up a bit- without sacrificing the possibility of a future career in medicine in some capacity.
Nursing school and physicians’ assistant training will also have tough chemistry.
Many kids want to be doctors. It is the mature version of " I want to be a fireman." I would encourage him to consider what he is interested in studying, without regard to career, while reassuring him that with a bachelor’s in hand, he can still choose any career he wants regardless of major.
A radiologist is a medical doctor. I do, however, agree with your point that there are many careers in the field of medicine that don’t require one to be a doctor.
I vaguely entertained the idea of being a doctor, at least until I passed out from the smell of formaldehyde in HS bio. I never even made it to orgo. A close doctor friend of mine had her son audit orgo at a local community college over the summer before he took it at his school so he would have at least a passing familiarity with it. He did ok but eventually decided he was not that interested in following in his parents’ steps.
Too many kids want to be doctors for the wrong reasons - prestige being the most common one. So many kids in high school that have good grades automatically say they want to be a doctor. It’s a tough tough slog and MOST parents don’t know the extent of how tough it is and continuously push their kids to keep at it. With the extent of insurance company involvement and gov regulation in doctors lives, the probability of being a “mediocre” paid doctor (as most will be), the fact that you are basically giving up your entire twenties, Plus hundreds of hours of shadowing and volunteer work that needs to be done in college for a 40% chance of getting into medical school- I’m surprised that becoming a doctor is still so romanticized.
I would absolutely take this opportunity to encourage your son to have a plan A and B and figure out what he wants to do outside of being a doctor.
I second the comment that you need to allow your child to pick their own path in life. They will be doing this for close to 40 years and they need to make sure the job is a good fit for them.
He is not alone in being hit with Organic Chem. That is a common weeder class. Chem engineers hit this also.
I actually had a related discussion with my sister recently, who is a doctor in a top Philadelphia-area hospital. She had a rough time with math and non-biology science classes in high school and college, but wanted to be a doctor. She majored in biology in college, but she told me she only got Cs or low Bs in all of her math classes, and a D in Organic Chemistry, but it doesn’t matter, because most doctors never use math, or chemistry, ever again after school . . . she thinks they’re pretty pointless unless one is going into pharmacology. (She is a rheumatologist.) And despite being, as she said, “bad at math and chemistry,” she was Chief Resident in med school and got an excellent fellowship that paid off all her med school debt. My point being . . . he shouldn’t give up from one class, especially if it’s not biology/anatomy.
If your sister became a doctor 10 or more years ago… Things have changed. A lot. In curriculum and in academic + non academic expectations.
These classes aren’t necessarily required because they’ll be useful in the profession but because they form a foundation for future medical classes and because they’re part of the gauntlet - part of their goal is to eliminate applicants.
The sister probably is talking more 20 years ago than 10, I am not sure how it helps.
Why was he taking organic chemistry as a freshman? Just because he got a 5 on the AP exam doesn’t mean he will automatically pass organic freely. Organic chemistry is usually a sophomore clsss after the student takes general chemistry 1 and 2 during freshman year.
Right…why WAS he taking Orgo as a freshman?
Regardless…let him decide. His school might have advisors who assist students who plan to apply to medical,school. Perhaps he should discuss his career options with them.
Listen to him carefully and discuss it fully. Does he really want to be a doctor, and this one class is discouraging him? Is that a hurdle that can be overcome with summer work or in some other way? Or has his freshman year revealed to him that he does not want to go into medicine? Both seem possible, and they suggest different conclusions regarding going forward.
We attended a great pre-med orientation session this spring. I thought a useful suggestion was to arrange a tutor at the beginning of the semester as a matter of course, not waiting until one falls behind. These classes are hard for almost everyone. Getting on top of the material is important. Getting a tutor early probably means you have a better chance to choose a strong one.
Depending on his grade and understanding of the material, he may want to retake the class if his school allows this. It might be hard to go forward with subsequent organic chem classes without additional study if he earned lower than a strong C.
Just listen to him and understand, like others have noted, this is a challenging class that many top students struggle in. He’s obviously bright and hard working to reach where he is. He will have many options going forward. Good luck to your son.
His school might allow him to retake organic chemistry…but medical schools do NOT allow,grade replacement so far as I know. Some D.O. schools allow grade replacement…but not MD.
@WayOutWestMom your thoughts here?
I have been amazed at the number of high school seniors who want to be doctors but have no clue what it involves, based on posts her on CC. Some think that they can apply to medical school right out of high school. One even asked if she could attend medical school part time. Then there is the grueling life of a resident before one can actually practice medicine. CC has been a good source of information for these aspirants.
OChem 2 isn’t more of the same as OChem 1. It is harder material. You need a sound foundation from the first semester to be successful in the second semester. Now the MCAT requires biochemistry which builds upon the material from OChem.
FWIW many pre-meds take OChem during the summer to focus on one class, or take it at a summer school known for grade inflation.
My kid took OChem in the summer and said it was a huge mistake. They condensed a full year of Ocehm into 9 weeks. Five days a week every day…all day…all summer.
She said it was terrible.
So, even though it was only one class…it was one LONG class. Remember…there is the class…and lab.
There are SO many interesting career paths in health care that do not involve becoming a physician. There are SO many interesting career paths in life sciences/bio (if that’s the interest) that do not involve becoming a physician. And there are so many interesting career paths to “help people” if that’s the impetus that do not involve becoming a physician.
If your son really and truly wants to become a medical doctor he should visit his academic advisor ASAP and get some perspective on Org/his career goals. But if he thinks it’s med school vs. barista for the rest of his life- you can encourage him to spend some time this summer exploring other careers that will tap into his interests but don’t involve becoming a physician.
Who helps people more- a pediatrician in a group practice in an upscale suburb who sees 15 kids a day, or a supply chain expert at a pharma company whose specialty is disaster/relief and who can get 50,000 doses of antibiotics and malaria medications to a region whose infrastructure has been wiped out by a flood or tsunami? Who moves the needle more in health care- a doctor at a big hospital who spends half his/her time in staff meetings, or dealing with administrative matters, or a statistician at the CDC who is helping to drive the rate of new HIV infections down by identifying “hot spots” in the country?
I am not knocking med school at all. But many kids assume that the only way to have a meaningful career in health care/helping people is by becoming a doctor.
Med school isn’t for everybody. Better he finds out now.
Why is he taking Organic as a freshman? Seems a bit, oh, masochistic to me.
BIG mistake to take Organic as a Frosh, particularly at a top school like S. Much better to have ‘retaken’ Gen Chem as a Frosh, bcos that’s what a lot of premeds are doing.
I’d drop it and retake next year. A C just ain’t gonna cut it for med school, particularly since you are California residents.