<p>My girl is a sophomore at Otterbein and found time (I don’t know how) to join a sorority. Out of her whole college experience, I think her joining a sorority is the thing that has surprised me the most. She loves it . . . maybe because she’s an only child and does enjoy the sisterhood!? She’s met some really wonderful girls and I’m happy that she has another group of friends to socialize with. She has friends in the theatre department and friends in the sorority so it’s a nice balance. The sorority she’s in is very flexible, and a lot of their past members have been part of the theatre department, so they’ve been really supportive. I’m not going to sugar-coat it though, there were times her freshmen year when she was pledging that I thought she was going to tip over from “everything,” but since then it’s really been a good thing for my daughter. </p>
<p>@kategrizz skating has been extremely helpful to our D. We could write volumes about how it helped her to overcome ADD, bullying, gave her discipline and confidence, etc. She hasn’t competed for a few years either, but she is one test away from her USFSA Senior certification. This will allow her to provide private coaching as a way to make money while she tries to build an MT career.</p>
<p>To pose another question regarding freshman confidence: my D(high school junior) just informed me that the 2 girls that were the undisputed MT stars at her PA high school last year, and got accepted and decided to attend 2 MT BFA programs that have been discussed on this forum, have both dropped out of college before the end of freshman year. Rumor, according to my D, is that they realized that the programs were too expensive. What??? Surely they and their families knew the cost of the programs going into freshman year. I’m wondering what’s really going on. Questions of fit, confidence, growing up and changing life paths, I don’t know. As much time, effort, and money we and our children are investing in this process makes this outcome a little scary. Of course, I took 2 gap years between high school and college, and still am not sure what I want to do, lol. But. These girls were at a PA high school and had at least an idea of what an intense MT program may be like. And my D, with all the assurance of a 16 year old, tells me they will definitely make it on Broadway. So, just throwing that out there. Worried about all the variables in this process. And, really, just worried.
.</p>
<p>I think you hit the nail on the head with the term “variables” – so much goes into play with kids entering college, let alone a BFA MT program. I know my sons have grappled with the phenomenon of no longer being the big fish in the small pond, to varying degrees. Suddenly casting isn’t a slam dunk. Coursework is challenging. The days are long. The support system of home and family is no longer there. They have to navigate living on their own for the first time and the whole social scene of college. So yes, confidence can wax and wane through freshman year and beyond. One caution: things may seem far more dramatic in calls home than they are in reality. I think kids often vent to mom and dad in vivid fashion because they may not want to let it all out to their friends/peers. We are a safe place to rant. I know a couple of times I’ve called back the next morning after a particular phone call expecting a maudlin kid, only to find that everything was sunshine and roses. I think my place sometimes is to be a sounding board for all the things that can’t be said in the dorm/hallways/classroom. They get it all out and move on. As for the post above about kids who leave BFA programs, I’ve heard of a few cases from various schools, and they’ve had a variety of reasons. For some, the school truly wasn’t a good fit. We know one boy who arrived expecting to be the lead in every show and was dismayed not to be cast at all. He was never really happy and left after a year. Another girl we know has switched majors (to a wonderful entertainment-related field). We also know of a couple who really did leave because of finances. I think those of you on here really doing your research are already ahead of the game – the best way to ensure success is really researching programs, connecting with the schools, doing campus visits, connecting with current students, etc. It’s also about really knowing your kid and their internal “governor” for handling stress. Performers tend to have “all the feels” anyway, so helping them navigate the ups and downs of this career path is important. We need them to know that life is more than MT and acting. They need to have ways to relieve stress – they need to go to the gym and eat healthy and have friends and go outside and see the sunshine and smell the flowers. It sounds corny, but it is important for these kids whose schedules are packed tight. Giving our kids lots of coping skills is part of our role here. (And certainly picking a program your family can afford for all four years is another important part of the puzzle that comes into play once final offers/scholarship and financial aid packages are all on the table.)</p>
<p>I think in the end it is not necessarily the most talented that are the ones that go on to professional success. It is the ones willing to putting in the hard work and keep putting themselves out there that do. I think the reality of these intensive MT programs is too much for some, especially those who didn’t have to work too hard to get great parts when they were in high school. When they enter a college MT program, not only are they low men on the totem pole because they are freshmen, they are probably not used to being surrounded by so many kids who are equally talented. Some are not used to being criticized by teachers and find professors’ critiques difficult to take. It’s hard to make your mark and stand out. Add to that incredibly heavy course loads, long hours, small or no parts in shows–some kids find a college MT program isn’t right for them. Some think they can go straight to the professional world and they leave school to try their hand at that. Others, after living MT 24/7, decide they are not cut out for MT life and leave to pursue other interests. Still others feel the program they have selected is not a good fit so they re-audition for other schools. So lots of kids don’t complete their program. But I agree I’m not sure how the girls you mentioned did not know the cost. I would be surprised if that is the reason they left. Going to summer programs on college campuses is one way to let your child see what it is like before getting to college. If you have a chance to participate in one I highly recommend it. And find kids you can talk to already in college that will tell your daughter the good, the bad and the ugly. These kids need to know as much as possible when trying to decide where they want to go to school and what they want to study.</p>
<p>
Our D pledged to a Sorority her freshman year, and really loved the community of young women, but decided to drop toward the end of Sophomore year due to schedule problems. She felt rehearsals plus a cappella plus her double major prevented her from participating in enough events to merit the dues, plus she would never have been able to earn enough points to live in the House. She’s not sorry she tried it, but it can be a tricky scheduling challenge for busy MTs.
This is SUCH an important point, and one I’m still learning to handle as the parent of an MT Junior! Theatre kids can by definition be a tad bit dramatic, and since they are constantly under extreme schedule stress PLUS constantly auditioning and competing with classmates I think they need a safe place to vent more than most. As was said, what sounds like an epic crisis one night is often forgotten the following morning. One of my current life goals is to learn to manage this gracefully before D graduates! ;)</p>
<p>Our daughter is in a sorority and it is an enormous help. I have urged her to make friends in her sorority as well. I see a small MT department as a little like a job. You know how they always tell you it is a bad idea to date someone at work? I feel relying on your program for all of your friendship needs can be tough, as there is the inherent competition among the kids, and the risk that they can begin to see musical theater as their entire life. I think they need to gain skills as a human being as well as a performer. I realize some programs are busier than other, and juggling two different social groups can result in them not being fully invested in either. But, college is not just developing career skills, it is growing up and learning to be on your own.
And, I agree fully that they will call you in a funk, and you are ready to send them to student health for mental health counseling, then the day later they are better than ever! The terrific book " Letting Go" talks about this phenomenon with all college kids, they do dump on us because we are safe and aren’t going to judge! It is easy to lose sleep over those phone calls. I have to remind myself that they have to learn how to cope without me. </p>
<p>On the money front – and my apologies if it seems like all my recent posts have really been harping on this – I cannot stress enough going to a program you can afford. It seems obvious, but I’ve run across families of kids who I can only describe as having “magical thinking” about how things will work out. (In all cases where I’ve seen kids leave because of money, these are families that don’t qualify for need-based aid.) Perhaps they have a little saved and can swing a semester or two, and they hope something is going to happen at the school where their kid will miraculously qualify for some super scholarship for the rest of their schooling. Or the kid has promised to work and pick up a share but finds he/she cannot really swing a job with the schedule. Or, maybe mom and dad thought they could qualify for a parent loan and then couldn’t for whatever reason. Or they hoped another family member would kick in some cash. Here’s the thing: you have to have a realistic financial plan in place that will ensure your child’s success – and for every family that will look different. In addition to regular tuition and housing increases, there are unexpected expenses along the way – audition trips for summer stock, new head shots, cellphone goes missing, car needs tires – just like real life, and you have to have discussions with your kids about what you can really do money wise and what they need to do. (In our case, our sons know they have to work during the summers.) It seems obvious but I can count on one hand the number of kids I know who REALLY have had these open conversations with their families. There will always be kids for whom money is no option, but for the vast majority of kids in MT programs this is a huge family investment and our kids need to respect that. I’ve shared in my past posts (searchable here on CC) that in hindsight there are a few programs we probably shouldn’t have applied to because we knew we wouldn’t qualify for need based aid, but I’m not sure we really understood in the beginning how limited the merit aid really was in terms of what was available for our sons’, both academic/talent-wise. Those of you here on CC are ahead of the game by doing your research and saving yourself from the potentially awful situation of telling your son or daughter you cannot afford their dream school. So I guess what I’m trying to say is that those kids mentioned here who leave “for financial reasons” may have parents who were afraid to burst that bubble. </p>
<p>@MTTwinsinCA - I’m with you all the way on this subject. Cost plays a big a role in our decision, and we’ve made our D well aware of this. Of course she has her dream schools, but she’s also perfectly happy with some of the less well known programs. The main goal is to get her in the best position to get great training, a positive & safe environment, useful contacts, and little or no debt at the end. We remind her of this frequently.</p>
<p>You’re also right about the unanticipated costs. I work with a guy who has a S going to Alabama on a full ride studying Civil Engineering, and he’s constantly shocked at how much it costs to keep his S’s education going, even with a full ride. </p>
<p>Our D has received scholarship offers ranging from $1,500 to $20,000 from about ten different schools. You’d think - wow - $20,000 is a lot of money, and it is. Except that this particular school has a sticker price north of $50,000. D understands that this particular school isn’t going to happen because it just doesn’t make economic sense. It also happens to have been her #1 dream school from the beginning. Fortunately she’s realistic about the situation.</p>
<p>I agree with everything vvnstar posted on February 25 above (no post numbers!). Kids leave MT programs all the time for a variety of reasons. This past weekend, I had guests staying at my house whom I had never met before. It turned out by sheer coincidence that their college age daughter had been in a BFA in MT program for three years and has left the program after 3 years! She switched into music education and now is switching into elementary education (not at the same school). I thought, wow, she left MT altogether after devoting 3 years to the program!</p>
<p>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</p>
<p>On the topic of sororities/frats, my MT kid was not in one. However, all four years of college she was in a coed a cappella group and in many ways, this was a bit like being in a sorority. It was a huge part of her college experience and the friendship bonds with that group have lasted beyond college. And it is nice to have a group of friends that is not exactly the same as your BFA MT class (there was a little bit of overlap). I recall in my D’s sophomore year (still living in dorms), she would talk about her MT friends who came over to their apartment every night (and she also lived with MT classmates) and sometimes it felt like too much MT…like the same kids 24/7 and needing a break from talking about all things MT! Anyway, just saying that you don’t need to be in a sorority or frat to belong to a group that is separate from your MT class. A cappella is one example. My other kid was on the varsity ski team at her college all four years and this was one very closely bonded group and separate from her other college friends, roomies, etc. </p>
<p>@cheeseheadmike – just had the apples-to-apples discussion with someone the other day. Her daughter has a good scholarship from School 1 and a better scholarship from School 2. On surface, seems like a no-brainer – go to school 2. Until I pointed out that School 2 is far more expensive – especially when you factor in the bump in price for on-campus housing after freshman year at that particular school and living expenses in that school’s urban locale. Net cost at School 1 is still much lower. All the info was easily available on the schools’ websites. Research research research.</p>
<p>Back to the topic of Freshman Year Confidence – the best thing to do is remind the students that every single performer has insecurities. All their peers are nervous and jealous and worried about casting and performing and being evaluated all the time. Everyone’s exhausted. Add on new-found adult pressures (friendships, boy/girlfriends, money, jobs) and it can feel overwhelming. Giving our kids coping skills and being a really positive sounding board is important. Another interesting aspect for me as an complete and utter NON PERFORMER is the “love me” factor these kids have for their acting/voice/MT professors. In many cases they just IDOLIZE these people (especially if they have any fame) and even an innocuous comment from one of their idols can feel like a barb. Assuring our kids that critique is part of what we’re paying for – is important. </p>
<p>All excellent points above, and just to add a bit of perspective: kids withdraw from ALL KINDS of college programs , not just MT, and there are many reasons. A good friend of my son was excelling academically at an extremely competitive premed program and left halfway through her sophomore fall semester. The school culture became overwhelmingly unpleasant and anxiety-inducing for her. She has the option to return but will probably transfer to a far less expensive (and equally strong) in-state university; the year-and-a-half at School A and the time off this winter have given her a new perspective on how she spends her time and money. We do have quite a few kids from our school who return to the college counseling office seeking help with transferring, either as freshmen or during a gap year. The four-years-straight-through-and-done college narrative is no longer viewed as the only acceptable option, and families are more willing to let kids change paths if they feel strongly about it.</p>
<p>Is it valuable to judge a school in part based on its % of students who return after freshman year and % of students who graduate within 4 years? Or are the MT students and programs statistically different from “normal” students and programs? For example, one school that has a fairly well regarded MT program has only a 58% retention rate and a 42% 4 year graduation rate. This doesn’t speak well of the school itself, IMHO. This is our first kid heading off to college so we’re new at wading through all of the variables…</p>
<p>Frequently, the MT program is it’s own little world in these places. My kids however would find that a huge turn-off. They care very much about the name on their diploma and nothing anyone could say was going to change that fact. So, the process got very complicated. Academic safeties beat BFA’s at some point for both of them.</p>
<p>@flossy - I would tend to agree with you. If a school doesn’t have solid retention and graduation rates there may be a problem of a poor academic standards/culture across the board. Even if the MT program is an entity unto itself this sense of mediocrity might spill over into the MT program. Sorry if my word choice is indelicate here. </p>
<p>Many colleges have told my D that their MT department has a “nearly 100%” retention rate. I wonder, though, if this is true. How have you obtained accurate numbers, if you have? </p>
<p>You can get the numbers off of the CampusVibe section of CC as well as from ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■. I suspect that the MT programs do have a very low dropout rate based on what it takes to get in, but they probably do lose a few kids each year for various reasons. </p>
<p>I guess that my original question was is this: Do a college’s retention and four year graduation rates point to a culture of excellence or a culture of mediocrity, and does it spill over into the MT program?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What each kid wants in a college will vary. My kid’s first choice would be to go to a well regarded and good fit BFA program that was located within a well regarded academically challenging university (and in the end, that was one of the attractions of her chosen school, NYU/Tisch). That said, a lot of excellent BFA in MT programs are not located within very selective colleges and so she did apply to some BFA programs she really liked even though getting in academically to those schools was a piece of cake. However, there were some BFA programs located within schools that simply are ones that would never attract her as an academic student and were not selective to get into at all (beyond the BFA program). That would mean being in some academic classes that were not challenging enough and in an educational climate that was just not a good fit for her. Remember, too, that while you are majoring in MT, you are earning a degree from a certain institution and that may be something you need to count on at some point beyond the theater realm of one’s career. Retention and graduation rates are typically way higher at more academically selective universities. I don’t think this all trickles down necessarily to the MT program. You can have very strong academic students choose the BFA in MT program at college with low retention rates because they really like the strong MT program. But keep in mind, you might also get MT students at such a college who were unable to get into MT programs at more academically selective colleges too. Typically, more academically selective colleges have a certain type of learning environment, along with higher retention and graduation rates. I do believe that BFA applicants are selecting the best fit BFA program and then the overall college is a secondary consideration but I also believe that the overall college should be a consideration in the decision as to where to attend. Part of the experience over the course of four years will be outside the time in the MT program. </p>
<p>
This became a really major consideration in D’s college selection, maybe in part because she knows people who attended school for theatre but switched careers later in life (e.g. me), but also because intellectual challenge has always excited her.</p>
<p>Some quarters she’s seemed even more excited by an academic class she’s in than by her MT studies (which she of course loves) which has been really fun to watch. The academics have also offered her a distraction at times when MT things weren’t going her way, which is bound to happen periodically over 4 years. Needless to say, freshman year is not the only time an actor’s confidence can dip. ;)</p>
<p>I’ve also noticed how inspired and even intimidated she is by her peers, not only for their MT talent but also for their intellect. They seem like a group of people she’ll admire, and hopefully collaborate with, for her entire life. Not saying that wouldn’t have happened in other programs, but it certainly has happened where she is.</p>