<p>I have a friend at my school who is likely to apply ED to Columbia because he has 3 bros/sis at Columbia. He ranks 7 or 8 but I rank 5 in the class. He has about a 2220 SAT while I have 2150. My extracurrics are very much better than his. More leadership, more awards even in overlapping activities. I'd very much like to attend Columbia but I wonder if I should shy away from applying ED if I know he is going to do it also. I feel that I have a legit shot, but I don't want to "waste" my application during ED if I know they are going to prefer him over me (family has history of kids being accepted ED at CC). Thoughts?</p>
<p>"if I know they are going to prefer him over me (family has history of kids being accepted ED at CC)."</p>
<p>Past performance is no indication of the future. It's getting tougher and tougher to get into Columbia, and the reality is you both may get rejected. </p>
<p>Don't worry about what your classmate is doing, he's one of hundreds of applicants who you'll be pitted against (people may disagree with me, but I think being from the same school doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things). If they like you both, they'll take you both. </p>
<p>If you've got good credentials and a strong essay, you'll be given a fair chance. Also, your classmate doesn't count as legacy just because all of his sibs are there. </p>
<p>I'd say go for it.</p>
<p>You are not "wasting" your ED application if Columbia is indeed your first choice school and that's where you really want to go. Ignore the fact that your friend is going to apply too. As cerberus said, he is just one of the thousands of applicants you will be competing against. </p>
<p>You do NOT know that the school will prefer your friend just because he has siblings there. You have the higher rank, more awards, etc. and maybe your recommendations and essays will be better too.</p>
<p>And who knows? Maybe Columbia will take both of you!</p>
<p>Just remember: "You can't win if you don't play."</p>
<p>hmm i'm gonna have to disagree here....</p>
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Don't worry about what your classmate is doing, he's one of hundreds of applicants who you'll be pitted against (people may disagree with me, but I think being from the same school doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things).
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<p>we all know that admissions is regional and schools also look for diversity in many ways and picking two people from the same school, especially ED, takes an additional spot that they could have given to someone more unique. </p>
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You do NOT know that the school will prefer your friend just because he has siblings there.
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<p>this is actually not true... qualified siblings get preference...you see it all the time. I dont know on what basis you are disputing this. </p>
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Just remember: "You can't win if you don't play."
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<p>this is true but you also have to "play" smart.... As i think is the case with many HS students, I also didn't really care where I applied ED....I didn't have one first choice but a short list of first choices... the most important thing for me was to apply where i had the best shot and get the process over with early ...and i would advise the OP to do the same. </p>
<p>That being said... i'm not implying that they will only take one of you two...they could take both but seeing as your stats are very similar they are more likely to opt for your classmate so as not to upset his THREE siblings and possibly lose their donations in the future.</p>
<p>I don't think one other kid at the school applying is going to make that much of a difference on your chances. It is more the entire pool thing, and if you are from an area where many kids apply to Columbia, it is likely that the other hundred kids that may have parental legacy (much stronger than sibling legacy), higher stats, development (the true trump card), celebrity, connections, will be the ones that will put you lower on the ladder than your classmate. They do not have quotas for a class, that I can assure you. Sometimes you can ride on the coattails of such admissions. I know that a kid in S's school got into Pomona along with another classmate with legacy admit (border line stats). The talk ( don't know if it was true or not but some did come from the GC office) was that it helped having someone with similar stats with the legacy that was going to be accepted in that case. But then west coast schools are more generous with east coast apps. Had this been Columbia, I don't think it would have meant a thing as there are so many kids applying there from all of the schools here.</p>
<p>Shraf, you certainly are entitled to your opinions, but I do hold different ones.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I agree that schools look for diversity, but diversity does not mean just geographic diversity. Two students going to the same high school -- one a 3-sport varsity athlete from a very well-to-do white family who wants to major in business and the other a bi-lingual Hispanic science geek being raised by a single parent -- are quite different from each other. And there have been many instances, cited here on CC, where two students in the same senior class were both admitted ED to the same elite college (although I don't know about Columbia specifically). Taking your viewpoint, no high school would ever be able to get more than one student admitted to an elite school and we know that happens all the time. There is no "quota" on the number of students that can be admitted from one school.</p></li>
<li><p>Siblings may be given a preference (and that is not necessarily a given, because some schools count only parents and sometimes for the "legacy boost"). If the two friends were both equally qualified in all aspects, I would not dispute that the friend's siblings would help him get the nod over the OP. However, on what basis do you assert that this boost would absolutely carry the friend over the applicant and completely eliminate the OP's chances? As the OP stated, he has a higher class rank with more awards and leadership roles. Maybe he plays the tuba and Columbia needs a tuba player this year. I don't know -- and you don't know -- what will catch the admissions officer's eye as he is reviewing the applications. </p></li>
<li><p>I feel this is where the real difference between us lies. I firmly believe that ED should be used only when the student truly feels that it is his top choice school and he really wants to attend that particular school -- because, if admitted, you are indeed "forsaking all others", as they say. Your "gamesmanship" runs counter to the intent of ED programs, which is to identify students truly committed to a particular school. I think the ED "boost" is vastly overrated, because the often-cited statistics of a higher admissions rate for ED do not provide any comparison of the respective qualifications of ED vs. RD candidates.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>The OP says he would very much like to attend Columbia, but he doesn't say how strong a preference that is compared to other schools. I have to say that I agree with Shraf to the extent if there is another school that is also competing for first choice, it might be better to apply ED there.</p>
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Taking your viewpoint, no high school would ever be able to get more than one student admitted to an elite school and we know that happens all the time.
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<p>that's not true nor did i imply this in any way. there were almost 20 kids from stuy in my year. Also the comment you are referring to I made about ED and not in general... i'm assuming that OP doesn't go to one of columbia's big feeder schools (like the NY magnet schools)</p>
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Your "gamesmanship" runs counter to the intent of ED programs, which is to identify students truly committed to a particular school.
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<p>the only "commitment" they care about here is yield </p>
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I think the ED "boost" is vastly overrated, because the often-cited statistics of a higher admissions rate for ED do not provide any comparison of the respective qualifications of ED vs. RD candidates.
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<p>if you are a qualified candidate who has a good chance at RD already, it is to your advantage to be part of the smaller pool and to give the school the assurance that you will go there if accepted. The biggest "boost" i see in terms of ED is that it ends your application process in december if you get in... you can't downplay the importance of this. I think the ting most overrated about ED is the process by which you pick the school to apply to.... its quite simple...make your RD list, make believe you've been accepted to every school and pick the one you'd go to...that's where you should apply ED. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't take into account your chances there as well. It just depends on what you value more...going to that specific school or getting in ED (getting the process over with early). </p>
<p>bottom line though is we agree to disagree and that's fine.</p>
<p>My ED choices are Stanford and Columbia. Stanford is the reach I am aiming for but I feel that I won't get into that school. Just looking at my SAT scores and my rank, I'm definitely not in the typical Stanford student range. Do you feel that I should just take this risk?</p>
<p>For perspective, I am from Ohio, my school is about 330 students in a class (is this a problem?) </p>
<p>I'd like to ask if you guys think I am a strong enough applicant to keep pursuing this despite this blockade. My extracurrics: debate national qualifier/semifinalist states, mock trial semifinalist states, 2nd alt science symposium (states) for my work in making my HS more sustainable, editor in chief of newspaper, varsity tennis, president of my school gov't, treasurer NHS, Vp Spanish club...I served a 3 week internship this summer in Taiwan at a corporate office, I volunteer as a camp counselor. </p>
<p>SATII- US History 780</p>
<p>AP- US History- 5, Chemistry-3, Psychology-5</p>
<p>For comparison my friend doesn't succeed me in those extracurrics/is not involved in them. US History-4, Calculus-5 Chemistry-4.</p>
<p>My gut tells me that if I feel I'm likely to be acceptd or deferred, I should at least try for it. If they like him for legacy it might not mean I'll get outright rejected right here. thanks for your thoughts, really appreciate it.</p>
<p>I applied last year ED alongside a legacy. His SAT was higher, we shared many activities, and we're both white. I was accepted, he was deferred and later rejected.</p>
<p>wow, that was a story i needed to hear. heh, i needed to see this actually happen.</p>
<p>"My ED choices are Stanford and Columbia. Stanford is the reach I am aiming for but I feel that I won't get into that school. Just looking at my SAT scores and my rank, I'm definitely not in the typical Stanford student range. Do you feel that I should just take this risk?"</p>
<p>stanford has slightly higer sat scores than we do, it hardly make a difference, both stan and col. are known for taking different, quirky, non-traditional students.</p>
<p>And since Stanford has SCEA instead of ED, if you applied early to Stanford and RD to Columbia, and got into both, you'd get to choose.</p>