Friendly Colleges for Low-income Students?

College Search & Selection
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<p>^^ Yup. (Interestnig that Smith meets 100% of need AND enrolls a large number of Pell recipients - - neediest students. Also interesting that schools w/ much larger endows don’t do nearly as well by the neediest. OTOH, I can’t really complain; if awards were limted to the neediest, middle-class families like mine would be left out in the cold.)</p>

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<p>“What matters is how well you do on your ECs, and how interesting your conversation is, not how much money you have.”</p>

<p>True, but $$ can impact your ability to participate in some ECs - - from having to work and thus having less time for ECs to the ability to purchase sports equip. Heck, $$ can even affect how and where you study (a friend’s S can’t afford books, despite very generous aid pkg, and must use books on reserve at the library). With a larger number o low-income students on campus, each indiv is less likely to feel so different.</p>

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<p>And where that conversation is held. A poor kid just can’t head on out to the local coffee shop/bar/fill-in-the-blank to discuss the theories of xx…</p>

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<p>My experience at MIT was that it was negligible. This may have varied by subculture. But rich vs poor wasn’t something that you could tell most of the time (and I’ve heard this comment from friends all across the income spectrum. </p>

<p>Of course, sometimes people would talk about their pre-college lives, and then you’d find out. Or, as a friend of mine from a poorer background commented, you’d occasionally run into somebody who was clearly naive about what it meant to be poor, what it was like to be at a resource-poor school, and that was a good indicator that they were reasonably well-off.</p>

<p>But most of the time you just had no idea unless it became relevant to the conversation. And nearly everybody held some sort of on-campus job, frequently a research assistant job, for at least part of their undergrad career, so you couldn’t necessarily tell that way either. People generally had their long philosophical conversations in living group halls and lounges, not coffee shops.</p>

<p>MIT also has generous finaid policies for low-income families - tuition is covered if your family makes less than $70K/year and has “typical assets” for that income level.</p>

<p>Edited to add: As of 2006, 15% of MIT undergrads received Pell grants.</p>

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<p>I’ve been to Cambridge about a dozen times over the past few years, and I usually dine at the local Legal Seafoods. There has never been a time when it was not well stocked with MIT (and other college students), all discussing the day’s events, courses, ECs, and the like. Of course, I’m on an expense account, not student finaid. :rolleyes:</p>

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<p>“And where that conversation is held. A poor kid just can’t head on out to the local coffee shop/bar/fill-in-the-blank to discuss the theories of xx…”</p>

<p>The conversations typically are in dorms, the dining hall or in places like Phillips Brooks House (the community service organization that 3/4 of the students are active with) or the student newspaper or other campus activities. </p>

<p>Harvard students are extremely active in the extracurriculars. Realize that it has more NCAA Division 1 teams than does any other college. In addition to those teams, there are lots of intramural sports. The undergrads produce something like 60 theater productions a year. There are musical groups, clubs for every interest under the sun.</p>

<p>Harvard students spend a lot of time on campus doing things. This is true of the rich students as well as the poor ones. I was on scholarship there and had friends who were millionaires and friends who came from very poor backgrounds. I never felt poor or condescended to except when it came to intellect. Because I was an unsophisticated small town girl, I got teased about that, but never over financial issues.</p>

<p>Most of my friends – including those not on scholarship – had some kind of job during their Harvard years.</p>

<p>Work study jobs were easy to handle while also doing ECs. People who end up at a place like Harvard are used to and skilled at juggling lots of things.</p>

<p>I never had a problem earning enough to buy books, personal expenses. With the even more generous financial aid now, I think that students there now have it easier than I had it, and I never felt deprived there.</p>

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<p>Back to the colgate comments</p>

<p>Colgate does meet 100% of need but they are need aware. Meaning that when the money runs out, they stop admitting students with need (or don’t offer them FA). This would likely by a main contributing factor to their lower rate of federal aid</p>

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<p>So I guess the question comes down to which schools offer a top-notch education without the prep school/rich kid mentality stereotypical of many top schools? Is this purely a stereotype that does not accurately portray these student bodies? Or does the prevalence of money really make low income and middle class kids feel uncomfortable?</p>

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<p>I think what matters is how secure the middle class and impoverished kids are. S goes to Rollins, a place with a rep as a playground for the rich. While there apparently are lots of very rich kids there, S has never mentioned anything about others’ finances. When I’ve asked him about his friends’ financial backgrounds, he said he didn’t know.</p>

<p>S has taken out big loans and has to work 10-14 hours a week during the school year. He has a large circle of friends, is very active in extracurriculars, and occasionally even does things on the town. </p>

<p>I suppose that if he were a Greek aspirant, his lack of money might be an issue, but since he hangs out with the arts and community service crowds, his not being well off has never been an issue. What has helped him get friends, etc. was his willingness to do community service and to help with the organizations he’s involved in.</p>

<p>When S was interviewed for merit aid, the student who most impressed him impressed S because of the student’s community service. When I met the student, I learned that the student had lived all over the world and also was driving a new Lexus (that the student had bought from his investments). Still what S and the guy talked about were various service projects.</p>

<p>So… if students have things in common with others, and if those things are based on nonmaterialistic values, low income and moderate income students can be comfortable even at “rich kids” schools. It wouldn’t be good, though, for students who lack self confidence or who think that money means others are better than they are.</p>

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<p>I would agree that urban schools, even those with great finaid, may be the hardest on low income students. A lot of kids at Columbia, Penn, and Harvard blow hundreds of dollars a night at clubs, bars, and restaurants. These kids may be the minority, but they’re an extremely visible minority. Also, even though Dartmouth is rural, it has a huge frat scene, and the frat scene isn’t always kind to low income students. During rush events, they ask you what time it is, and if you check your phone instead of your Rolex Submariner, it’s noted.</p>

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<p>“But are the students on lavish financial aid really able to enjoy the elite colleges that admit them as well as the well-off students who can pay full list price? How is the social gap between rich and poor at the colleges you know best?”</p>

<p>I suspect that no matter whate venue, the very wealthy usually have a better time than the very poor - - but that doesn’t mean that the poor students w/ lavish aid packages are necessarily unhappy. A number of my close friends from college grew up wealthy. In college and currently, I sometimes have to forego an outing that is beyond my means; the reverse also occurs with friens who are less-well off than my family - - that’s just a fact of life. </p>

<p>We are all, however, alums of a rabidly liberal old-money LAC where wealthy it was considered bad form to be too interested in money. Having just completed my second round of college tours (with D2), I know that the difference among schools can be like night and day. </p>

<p>Still, it was, as I noted in an earlier post, important that there was at least critical mass of other students with modest household incomes so I did not feel reakishly out of place.</p>

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<p>“A lot of kids at Columbia, Penn, and Harvard blow hundreds of dollars a night at clubs, bars, and restaurants.”</p>

<p>Ain’t that the truth!! And even though those kids are the minority, the bar/club scene becomes the activity of choice - - precisely b/c the wealthy kids are doing it. (Believe me, I read D the riot act when the credit card bill showed that one month she had spent $250+ eating out w/ friends. I also suggested she incorporate kids who were not high-rollers into her circle.)</p>

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<p>And more importantly, if they are in your study group, it can be more than awkward to say, No, I can’t meet at the local cafe to discuss Plato over lunch bcos I can only afford the “free” food in the dining hall"…</p>

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<p>^^^This can occur at State U, too - - and when poor students interact with middle-class students (as opposed to the rich). I think OP’s question was more along the lines of how much more often at top schools? And is the atmoshpere at some top schools better than at others?</p>

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<p>FYI, even friend’s S who uses the books on reserve goes out for coffee or pizza once in awhile. OTOH, unlike my D, he would/could NEVER spend $250+/mo eating out. And as others have noted, some college towns don’t offer much more than a coffee shop, so everyone’s on pretty much equal footing - - utnil winter or spring break.</p>

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<p>“And more importantly, if they are in your study group, it can be more than awkward to say, No, I can’t meet at the local cafe to discuss Plato over lunch bcos I can only afford the “free” food in the dining hall”…"</p>

<p>I live in a college town where there’s a public university with very poor kids as well as wealthy kids. I see students in study groups in libraries and coffee shops with free wifi. Usually what they have is at most a cup of coffee, a latte or tea. College students aren’t like adults who do business over lunch.</p>

<p>Students in study groups also are not looking to socialize or to have fun or to expense account something: They just want to get their work done. </p>

<p>Even when I was in grad school, our study groups met in the grad student room at the department or at student’s apartments. Since I was married to a guy making a decent wage and I also had fellowships, I probably had more disposable income than anyone in my class. Still, I never would have suggested having a study group meet for a restaurant lunch or dinner. As is the case with most students, I liked to separate work and play.</p>

<p>“I would agree that urban schools, even those with great finaid, may be the hardest on low income students. A lot of kids at Columbia, Penn, and Harvard blow hundreds of dollars a night at clubs, bars, and restaurants. These kids may be the minority, but they’re an extremely visible minority.”</p>

<p>I went to Harvard undergrad and never saw that “visible minority.” Presumably, they went their way, while I went my way by partying at Harvard and other colleges, going to the $1 flicks on and off campus, and by eating very occasionally a $5 gristly steak at Buddy’s Sirloin pit, my boyfriend and my idea of a romantic restaurant meal. There were plenty of free, interesting, and dirt cheap things to do on campus.</p>

<p>I also lived for 10 years in D.C., another place with an abundance of free and dirt cheap things to do. </p>

<p>I found the same was true of NYC, when I spent a couple of weeks there a few summers ago when H was working there. New Yorkers know how to get very cheap tickets to shows, and how to see amazing shows and other experiences for free. For instance, I saw Meryl Streep and Kevin Kline in Central Park for $0: The only cost was standing in line for several hours to get a free ticket.</p>

<p>Wherever one lives or whatever one does, more than likely you’ll encounter some people who have more money and can do more expensive things than you can. One can choose to be miserable or one can enjoy the various things that one can do. If a poor student will only be happy and secure when surrounded by other poor people, they might consider staying at home in the inner city or country instead of exposing themselves to people who are more affluent.</p>

<p>I did have a couple of friends in college who were able to do things during breaks like go to Europe or Asia courtesy of their well off families while I was having to return home to work. Seeing what those friends did inspired me to make sure that I found ways to travel after I entered my career, and I have done just that. If I hadn’t met those friends, I may never have made such a goal for myself.</p>

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<p>"I suppose that if he were a Greek aspirant, his lack of money might be an issue, but since he hangs out with the arts and community service crowds, his not being well off has never been an issue. "</p>

<p>I think NSM hit the nail on the head - - how fully are low-income kids intergrated into the community? Does lack of mondey prevent them from geing involved in most aspects of campus life?</p>

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<p>We are not “low income” but on the lower end of middle class.</p>

<p>My eldest went to Colgate, and there were times she felt out of her element; mostly because of just growing up differently. We shop at thrift stores; most of her classmates preferred high end stores. She was in one of the cello groups - her cello was a nice instrument we purchased used. Many of the others in the group had the absolute best. But she found a nice group of friends that she felt comfortable with (she didn’t join a sorority).</p>

<p>My youngest stepdaughter went to Dartmouth, also with a financial aid package. The only time that money was mentioned to my husband was when she wanted to go sky diving with her friends, and wanted him to give her the money ($3 grand). He didn’t hesitate to tell her no. But she also found friends she felt comfortable with (she did join a sorority). She grew up on Long Island, though, and was a little more used to being around people with money, whereas my daughter did not.</p>

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<p>It’s a great place to eat if you can swing it for a special occasion, but I never met <em>anyone</em> at MIT, not one single person, who went there regularly, or considered it some kind of student hangout. People hung out - gasp! - on campus, for free, and ate food that they cooked or got from a dining hall, with the occasional “dinner mob” to Mary Chung’s, Royal East, or CBC, or ordering-out for pizza.</p>

<p>Nor did I ever meet anyone at MIT who blew hundreds of dollars a night at clubs, bars, and restaurants. I can’t even conceive of that.</p>

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<p>This continues to be a very helpful discussion. Thanks for the latest comments. I’m comparing what’s being said above about various colleges with my memories of life as a commuter student at my state flagship university (one of the colleges that has already admitted by oldest son). There do seem to be a lot of approaches to campus social life, with varying budgets.</p>

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<p>I can’t vouch for Legal Seafood in Cambridge, but if you check the NYU board, you’ll see that a lot of their socializing is off campus and often at pricey venues - - that’s part of the “fun” of attending school in NYC.</p>

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<p>I’m a low-income student at Stanford and agree wholeheartedly with the previous posts about Stanford. They do a great job making sure low-income students feel accepted and involved with campus life. And the financial aid, of course, is amazing.</p>

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<p>There are many ways that a college/uni can make money more or less of an issue. In touring w/ D, I notice that a number of schools, students can pay more for a better dorm or a better room; I suspect that schools w/o such policy have a more egalitarian feel (or at least more so than if those schools adopted such policy). I have also wondered about the purchasing of meal plans (at D’s schools all meals are included and students can eat as much as they like).</p>