<p>I recall from the Swat tour S2 and I attended that all campus activities are free, as well as the off-campus activities they sponsor. The idea is that those things are covered by activity fees so everyone has the opportunity to participate.</p>
<p>S1 reports that he can’t tell who has money and who doesn’t at Chicago. He doesn’t do the restaurant or partying thing, but neither do most of the folks in his dorm. Many of his friends have jobs, too. </p>
<p>I noticed the economic differences at my flagship university because I worked in the cafeteria til 8 pm every weeknight (and some extra weekend shifts) and students on group projects always scheduled meetings earlier than that so they could get to the Greek parties/meetings. Profs were not understanding. H was pretty uncomfortable with the economic differences at Penn/Wharton, esp. when it came time for internship and job interviews --finding $ for a suit, dress shoes, shirts and ties was a non-trivial exercise – and one not covered by FA packages. We were both EFC 0, Pell Grant recipients with no financial support from parents at all.</p>
<p>Just because a family may be full pay (or close to it) doesn’t mean there is money to burn for partying, ski trips, etc. Many folks we know are spending EFC on their EFC.</p>
<p>If you’re low income and think you can make it, definitely apply to the ivy leagues. They give extremely generous financial awards. I don’t think this is a surprise considering that they generally have high endowments.
Other colleges: Skidmore, Georgetown U, Lehigh U, and most top liberal arts colleges like Middlebury. (this is coming from experience!!)</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure Skidmore is not need blind. Not sure which of the others you mentioned are (besides the Ivys of course). These days that can be a deciding factor in admissions unless your stats are impeccable.</p>
<p>As a low income student there are only a small number of colleges you can attend without ending up with huge loans and endless hours of work. Most of them are elite schools, top LACs, Ivy league etc and some are state schools, North Carolina State, William and Mary, Univ of Florida etc. Given their financial circumstances, I suspect most low income kids would be happy to be admitted to any of these colleges although I also think that the various state schools that meet need with no loans are probaly better bets for low income kids.</p>
<p>Not that I go to Williams, but they flew me up there for a low-income/URM program, and they truly do seem committed to helping low-income students get an education. If I remember correctly, students who had work-study did not work more than 10 hours a week, and my host and her friends (several were also low-income) fit in with the general upper-middle class and upper class students at Williams. The students were really friendly, as were the admissions staff and others. It’s not near a city, so it’s not like there was a huge club and bar scene. </p>
<p>In contrast, it seemed very different from Georgetown (where I actually attend). I don’t feel like I’m at all isolated from higher income students, but I also work, have some extra spending money, and wear clothes that could lead one to believe that I come from a wealthier family. While there are cheap things to do in DC, the things that people actually do are expensive - going out to dinner, going to bars, and sometimes going to clubs. Sure, it’s not everyone, but I’d say that at least 2/3 of my floor have fake IDs, expensive clothes, and go out often without worrying about work or money.</p>
<p>I think that Williams, in my experience visiting, didn’t seem to isolate low-income students - but, of course I could be wrong.</p>
<p>My daughter is at Williams on generous financial aid. I think the entry system helps a lot to bring people from different backgrounds together. The vast majority of the time it is a non-issue but it is something of a culture shock to be around such wealth. She just shakes her head at the online shopping some of the girls do. But it’s not like those girls turn around and snub her because she’s not wearing $300 boots. There’s really no need to spend money off-campus so that’s hugely helpful financially, as well as socially.</p>
<p>I second that opinion. My D just called, a rare occasion and told me all the various places her friends are going for Spring Break and the summer - already. She wants to spend the summer in Paris. I have also noted the expenses for tanning, nails and eyebrow jobs on her debit card which was badly overdrawn and required a refloat. I’ll also note my sister, many years ago, went to Vassar and came back after the first semester with a very different perspective on life. Has been quite successful but never really the same. Or maybe she just looked at the rest of us a little differently - got the feeling we were no longer living up to standards. How well any of these elites work for low income kids is pretty much up in the air. For the most part, as I said earlier, I think most lower income kids are better off at a state college if they can get the same financing. There’s often far more economic diversity and a lot less unnecessary spending. Unfortunatly, here in Pa the states are not accessible for most low incomes and if your scores are good enough, the better privates are still the way to go.</p>
<p>I don’t think there’s any doubt that for a poor kid w/ good numbers, a free-ride or near free-ride at a to LAC/uni is the way to go. But I’m not conviced that State U is necessarily a picture of harmonious economic diversity. At a number of the SUNY schools (especially those located in or near cities), a lot of the socializing is at off-campus bars/clubs where kids drop a lot of money. Off-campus socializing was also popular among the students attending the schools in Greensboro,NC and Charlotte, NC. And it’s not just the wealthy, solidly middle-class kids show up on campus w/ the accoutrements of privilege and are also doing their fair share of spending.</p>
<p>Also, there’s a difference b/c (1) wealthy students making an issue of their money and making the less well-off feel like lesser beings, and (2) poorer students feeling intimidated or being uncomfortable by the mere presence of affluent students and their expensive gear. If the wealthy girls’ conduct is neither deliberately or unintentionally unkind/hurtful, what’s wrong with them having and wearing $300 boots? </p>
<p>(You’d be surprised at how many savy NYC girls on a budgert can snag designer duds for pennies on the dollar. D came home last week w/ Birkinstocks she picked up for $35; she also has $250 J. Crew riding boots purchased during a clearance event for just $40 and Longchamp luggage reduced 75% at their semi-annual sale.)</p>
<p>OTOH, I recall a friend’s aunt remarking, with a southern drawl, “Why would anybody BUY antiques? Doesn’t everybody already have them at home?” And from a Shaker Heights dorm-mate, “Everyone who is anyone has a coming out party.” To which well-heeled friend from Philly quipped, “Perhaps, but nobody who is anybody comes out in Cleveland.”</p>
<p>I also had friends who felt like second-class citizens b/c w/s was part of their finaid packages. They resented having to work (especially in the dining halls) while others sat around and socialized. </p>
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<p>sdr691, I recall the letters D rec’d from Williams - - very encouraging and very generous. FYI, however, most schools limit the number of hours w/s students, particular first-years, can work; at D’s school first-years are limited to 8 hrs/wk.</p>
<p>“I don’t think there’s any doubt that for a poor kid w/ good numbers, a free-ride or near free-ride at a to LAC/uni is the way to go.”</p>
<p>Unfortunately “good numbers” aren’t good enough for a low income student to get the free ride or near free ride. It probably takes a 2000 plus SAT and above a 3.5 in AP classes for that. A very small percentage of low income kids are going to achieve on that level - another reason to focus on accessible state schools.</p>
<p>yeah I was wondering about that too. I know admissions seek out the URMs, but isn’t income level a separate issue? The URMs from my kids’ school who got spectacular admissions offers with less than spectacular stats were not low income.</p>
<p>foolishpleasure,
Yeah, I know, but in my experience at Georgetown it’s limited to 20 hours; some work-study employers actually expect you to work that many hours, even as a freshman, to keep a job.</p>
<p>" I’m not conviced that State U is necessarily a picture of harmonious economic diversity"</p>
<p>They aren’t. From what I see of the second tier public in my college town, while there’s a great deal of economic diversity, the poor kids and the rich kids live in very different worlds. There are plenty of very wealthy kids driving sports cars, Lexuses, and living in Greek houses that literally are mansions. </p>
<p>Greek life is huge on the campus. The Greeks tend to be very well off, to have designer clothes, and to vacation in places like the Caribbean and Mexico.</p>
<p>There is a smaller proportion of very poor kids who are taking out loans to have a basic college education.</p>
<p>Since Greek life – not other types of ECs are what the campus revolves around – it takes lots of money to have the kind of social life that this particular college is noted for having.</p>
<p>It’s very different than was the Ivy that I attended where students’ social lives tended to revolve around ECs like the campus newspaper, dorm sports, students acting troupes, community service, and clubs related to one’s future profession – things that were based on skills, brains, commitment and creativity – not the size of one’s wallet.</p>
<p>Although I was on need-based scholarship at my Ivy, I never felt poor. I feel poor as an adult when I walk by the sorority and fraternity mansions near the college in the city where I now live.</p>
<p>^^^Those colleges tend not to have the endowments that allow them to give really attractive finaid packages (large awards, mostly grants) to low-income students. </p>
<p>Interesting that you mention Juniata. The reference to educating rural students that I recall from several years ago - - and which was a basis for D, a city girl, not considering Juniata - - is (reportedly) no longer part of Juniata’s mission statement.</p>
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<p>Re: the posts on page 5 of this thread, aren’t many low-income students first-gen college attendees or URM?</p>
<p>In Pa, I would recommend Temple University as a school that is going to work for low income kids and gives “doable” financial aid for good students. Graduating is going to require lots of work both inside and outside the classroom but there are going to be many other students in the “same boat.”</p>