<p>I will have to somewhat disagree with Sally. When my S1 got in to a top30, notoriously aid stingy Lac a few years back as a full pay, I had a chance to call the school about a deposit check. It somehow was a slow day for the student answering the phone was confused and actually transferred me if not to head, then assistant head of FinAid. We chatted for a bit, I mentioned the state of economy, non existent bonuses that year, etc. and he was very open that even though it was late, fill out the paperwork and they will see what they can do. After deadlines, knowing they had a sitting duck ED acceptance. So from then on my philosophy on anything is “nothing ventured, nothing gained”.</p>
<p>mhmm-In most cases I agree. As you’ll note above, I told Ed that it wouldn’t hurt for him to take a shot at requesting merit aid for his daughter, even though it seems like a long shot. </p>
<p>But if a borderline candidate has applied as a no-need student and has received extra consideration in the admission process because of this, I think that the family should seek after-the-fact need-based aid only if there has been a significant change in the family’s financial outlook. In some cases (especially if a parent has lost a job or even died), colleges may bend over backwards to allow a late aid application. But if, on the other hand, it’s simply a case of “we’re stretched here and wouldn’t mind more dough” (which seems to be Ed’s situation), then I feel it’s unethical for a family to seek need-based aid if the child has already been accepted as no-need.</p>
<p>Sally - what are the chances of appealing for merit aid, when none was received? </p>
<p>We are in that unfortunate position of not being able to get financial aid (thereby checking off the “will not be applying” box). But, of course, we cannot afford an LAC that costs $55,000+.</p>
<p>Just wondering if we should throw the acceptances in the trash? Or should we try for merit somehow/someway?</p>
<p>I’m a big fan of appealing aid offers when required, especially if a child will have to turn down a top-choice school without extra help. This includes asking for merit aid if you’ve not gotten any to begin with. Of course, you have to be sure that the college gives merit aid in the first place and that it doesn’t come in the form of one giant scholarship for the walk-on-water applicants and nothing for anyone else (such as at Boston College).</p>
<p>When asking for extra money, whether merit or need-based, here are a few suggestions:</p>
<p>1) Never sound entitled. Always act appreciative for any tiny crumb that might be tossed your way (but then ask for more 
)</p>
<p>2) Give the aid officers a dollar amount, as in, “We could make this work with a $9,000 grant.” Don’t just say, “Please, sir, I’d like some more.”</p>
<p>3) Whenever possible, provide specific reasons why you really need the money, especially those that may not have been on finaid forms. “We had to get special testing for our younger child” or “We had major storm damage in our yard that was uninsured” will be get you farther than, “We couldn’t make it through another winter without seeing Hawaii.” :D</p>
<p>4) When possible, offer to send documentation for the above (bills, etc.)</p>
<p>Be polite but persistent. And good luck (you’ll need it).</p>
<p>Thank you Sally for being so specific. Almost of the schools ds applied to are schools known to give a decent amount of merit (many are LACs in the midwest). Dickinson provided us a wake-up call by giving no merit and a bottom line of $58,250. Now, we are scared about the rest of the schools - decisions will come within the next or two. They probably love to see us as a full-pay family (but we are not, of course).</p>
<p>So you’re saying we should be specific about a financial hardship, even if we can’t technically qualify for financial aid?</p>
<p>One other question Sally - we should make the appeal to the financial aid department, not admissions (assuming they determine merit aid)?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Although the FAFSA and CSS Profile forms suggest a high EFC, many families find that the bottom-line figure does not work for them, even if they maintain what they feel is a fairly modest lifestyle. Factors such as cost-of-living in pricey places aren’t always fully reflected in the EFC calculations. </p>
<p>So even if you haven’t had any atypical big-ticket expenses this year, you may be able to show finaid officials that your net income will be strained beyond reason if you’re expected to pay $58K (or whatever the other schools are trying to extract from you).</p>
<p>Note also that you may fare better at the Midwestern colleges than you did at Dickinson, especially if you’re not from the Midwest. (Those colleges can be overlooked by East and Left Coast applicants so the schools may use some merit bucks to increase their geographical diversity.)</p>
<p>We are keeping our fingers crossed for those Midwestern schools, for sure!</p>
<p>Thanks so much.</p>
<p>this seems unethical. i thought admissions was need-blind</p>
<p>it’s a business… if everyone is unable to pay, then the school won’t survive. Need blind policy satisfies political rethoric. In reality, schools need to balance their bills, just like everybody else.</p>
<p>The whole system is unethical but that’s the way it is in this country. Not all schools even have a need-blind policy. I would venture to say that most don’t.</p>
<p>So, I’ve read through all of the posts and haven’t seen these questions answered. If anyone can clarify these questions that would be great!</p>
<ol>
<li><p>At need-aware schools, do the Admissions Office and Financial Aid Office share their information? I mean they would have to right (to know who can pay full, who cannot, etc.)? If this is the case, doesn’t that mean that the Admissions Office can see all the schools that the Applicant applied to (all schools are listed on the FAFSA)? Now if that were the case, could they be basing some of their decisions on this information? i.e. a school Waitlists an overqualified student to protect their yield</p></li>
<li><p>Alternately, do need-aware schools share information between the Financial Aid Office and Admissions Office? I wonder for the same concerns shown above.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Thanks in advance to those who answer.</p>
<p>If you research this a bit, you’ll find much of the “needs-blind” trumpet blowing has its origins in a court case the Justice Dept brought in the late 80s against the Ivies and another school for colluding on student acceptances. They all used to get in a big room in Newport RI and hash out who was going to accept whom…and of course financial considerations were discussed. The emergence of “Needs Blind” rhetoric was the compromise the Ivies worked out with Clinton’s Justice Dept in the 90s. Interestingly, one school refuted the compromise on the grounds that “Needs Blind” was hooey, and ultimately disadvantaged the disadvantaged (because now colleges could not honestly look at or discuss the financing of colleges). That school was MIT. Everyone else came out with some form of Needs Blind…which was great…so long as those endowments were soaring. In very recent years, endowments have taken great hits, and the Needs Blind rhetoric has been revisited. Needs-Aware is more prevalent. If colleges are honest, they will tell you that up front. Ngong’s comment above is 100% true. Somebody has to finance those lush green lawns and fancy cafeterias. </p>
<p>Great forum thread. We all need to keep discussing it!</p>
<p>EdMenke: I think you’re confusing two topics. Need Blind admissions policies were adopted by some colleges to create a “Chinese Wall” between admissions and Fin Aid where applicants would be evaluated regardless of their ability to pay. This is not a universal policy nor do I believe, anyone has suggested so.</p>
<p>The Justice Dept pronouncements against the Ivies + MIT had nothing to do with any of their Need Blind policies or lack thereof. What it cited them was about possible collusion where the schools would look at overlap admits and compared their fin aid offers to ensure that they were relatively close to one another – thereby eliminating a bidding war for coveted fin aid recipients. DoJ rightly stopped this practice. But it has no link to the individual schools’ need-blind acceptance policies which existed prior to the DoJ involvment.</p>
<p>As for endowments shrinking, that’s no surprise. But the big hitters (HYP) have made a big deal about it not affecting their Need Blind and meeting full-needs policy.</p>
<p>At least that’s my layman’s understanding. Am I way off?</p>
<p>@PizzaFatFace: As for schools not having need-blind being unethical – how is it so if it’s clearly stated? I’m the beneficiary of a need-blind admit school but it had/has a monster endowment. Not every school does and therefore can’t be need-blind.</p>
<p>Note that if the admissions office is need-blind, but the financial aid office tends to give poor need-based financial aid, then that can result in a needy student getting admission that s/he cannot use because s/he cannot realistically afford to attend (though some may try to do so with excessively large student loans). A certain popular “dream school” in a big city has this reputation.</p>
<p>If one considers both the admission office and financial aid office decisions (one needs a favorable result from both), then the only truly need-blind schools are those which are full-ride for everyone (e.g. military service academies, Deep Springs). Even a “meets full need” school may effectively deny an applicant who can afford less than what the financial aid office believes s/he can afford based on its financial aid formulae.</p>
<p>^ agreed but there is a small handful of top schools with ridiculously deep pockets and are renown for generoud FinAid, my alma mater included. Whenever I give info sessions, I tell the audience the “sticker price” – and rightfully, gasps ensue. But then it leads me into discussing the pretty jaw-dropping fin aid examples my school gives. </p>
<p>But not surprisingly, these types of schools have the >10% admit rates as well…</p>
<p>I’m not an expert on this topic but I think the IVYs stopped giving merit aid also because of the fear of bidding wars for top candidates. They now just give need based aid but I think it can go to kids with what many would consider to be pretty high incomes - maybe over $200,000 a year? Just shows what the IVYs consider poor.</p>
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<p>Actually I think that there is a sliding scale for Ivy need-based aid. The numbers I’ve seen range from full tuition for family income under $60k and declining partial aid up to $160k. I’m sure someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I think I’m close.</p>
<p>Is it just applying for FA that makes a difference or the actual need and amount established? Someone who needs only 10k is a lot “better” for the school than one who needs 30k so it is a sliding scale. One could apply for FA but may not qualify due to high EFC in which case they are effectively no-need. </p>
<p>I did not read this thread and applied for FA as many colleges said they need FAFSA to be considered for all types of aid - need, merit, scholarships, etc</p>
<p>mdt123: As the old adage goes, “You never get a second chance to make a first impression.” So, at some need-conscious colleges, simply noting from the get-go that an applicant is not seeking any aid can offer an advantage. However, for those who ARE seeking aid, the amount of assessed need is definitely a factor. For instance, when need-aware schools make their final decisions, they may replace one tentatively-admitted candidate who requires, say, $30K with three who require just $10K each.</p>