@MinneMom2 That $200K - is that debt or out of pocket?
@MinneMom2, I would say that it would depend a lot on her goals (or possible goals) as well as who she is as a person. Does she thrive around other bright studious kids or more when she’s at the top? Would the plethora or majors and courses at the big state school be an advantage? Is she a go-getter who can seek out opportunities even in a big bureaucratic organization? Is she more goal-focused or cares a lot about her environment?
Also, explore the honors program thoroughly. Some have real tangible benefits. Others are just so a school can say they have honors.
@albert69 - 200K would be what we would be seeking to cover with outside scholarships, scaling (way) back on our current lifestyle, and taking out loans. We do have a college savings fund for her, but who knew (10+ years ago when it would have really mattered) that we’d have a kid with these scores and ambitions? We can make it work, but only if we all agree it’s really worth it.
@PurpleTitan - she does thrive around other bright students but wonders if she’s “bright enough” for UChi (we tell her the admissions people seem to think so, but she has to believe it). Honestly, I think right now she just wants a great education and is not career-driven, per se. Sure, she wants to get a job and make a decent living, but she has always loved learning just for the sake of learning. She doesn’t know, specifically, what she wants to study (loves English and creative writing, math, music) but wants to hone her critical thinking skills (hence the appeal of the Life of the Mind culture at UofC). She wants to travel the world and make a difference in people’s lives (idealsim of a 17yo).
We are attending an Honors luncheon at our flagship U this week, so we will hopefully get lots of nitty gritty on the program. I am truly hopeful that they are not just paying lipservice to the “honors” mantra and that there is some substance to the program. She’s also doing an overnight at UChi in a few weeks. Hopefully that experience will afford some clarity.
I don’t mean to hijack OP’s thread (apologies to @imsocool22), but I do appreciate everyone’s insight. Thanks!!
Studying all of English, math, and music (not necessarily majors in all, but substantial course work at least in each) should hone her critical thinking skills in the various ways of thinking.
I agree with @PurpleTitan - really look into the Honors program at the flagship. A good honors program can be intimate with intense learning, but it can also just fill space for advertising (yes we have an honors program).
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200K would be what we would be seeking to cover with outside scholarships, scaling (way) back on our current lifestyle, and taking out loans.@MinneMom2
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I agree with @ucbalumnus
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Studying all of English, math, and music (not necessarily majors in all, but substantial course work at least in each) should hone her critical thinking skills in the various ways of thinking.<<<
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Absolutely. No need to spend/borrow and hope for outside merit to cover $200k.
Many schools, particularly a flagship with honors, would have the classes needed within the Philosophy dept (special shout-out to Deductive Logic class!). Some schools even have a tract called: LIfe of MInd (or similar) for pre-law and philosophy students.
As a major, I would also have her look into The Classics…that’s another major for smarty-pants kids who love learning.
So, what is the criteria we should be looking for in the state school honors programs? D has been accepted to UMAssAmherst CommCollege and received an invite to the BIOTAP program this week. I’m not sure what we should be looking for. This is her financial safety at probably $20K. We are holding out hope that at least a few LAC decisions will come back at $30K or under. Is it worth the extra $10K (that will require her to take the full student loan each year) to go to a well-known LAC (Wellesley, Vassar, Bates). Fit wise, she prefers the smaller schools for sure but it appears that the honors program tries to bring the smaller feel to the honors and then the biotap program as well.
And think about the salary after college for those studying English and music…not high at all in most cases, so I would definitely choose full ride!
However, math with elective course work in applied subjects like statistics, economics, and/or computer science may lead to some additional job prospects.
I would certainly look at class size for the Honors program, any additional courses only offered to the honors students, possible dorming differences, special access to research or projects. Taking Stafford Loans for a LAC would be fine IMO. Both my Ds attended LACs because they liked small classes and more intimate settings.
@voiceofreason66 on a different thread generated a list with a breakdown of # of students with ACT/SAT scores 30+/1330+ attending various schools. The list was generated to demonstrate that at schools like Bama there are large #'s students in the top 5-8% of all test takers attending but that their presence is statistically diluted by the very high numbers of lower stat students also attending.
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/18061424/#Comment_18061424
Looking at the real numbers of individual students vs. the entire entering freshman class might be helpful for those weighing honors colleges, honors programs, etc and wondering if their student can find peers on the lower ranked university’s campus. Does the university have a plan specifically for meeting the needs of honors students?
^^^
That means %5 of students at Alabama and %15 of students at Notre Dame.
I’m supposed to weight the worth of my peers by their SAT scores?
In terms of posts #91 and #92, no to both. That is the number of entering freshmen, not student body total. The number of entering freshmen was 6856. http://uanews.ua.edu/2014/09/ua-enrollment-tops-36000-freshmen-bring-record-scores-gpas/
The point is that close to 30% of the entering freshman at UA fit that profile. It isn’t as if they are .01% of the student population. (actually according to the links’ numbers, it would be slightly over 30%.)
And @albert69, that is not what I am implying at all. Goodness, it is the contrary. The point is that large numbers of good students are found outside of the tippy top ranked schools.
These discussions always seem to presume that a high achiever in high school is guaranteed to be a high achiever wherever they go for college.
In reality, most kids go off to college, and hit some bumps in the road. They party too much for a while, or they get depressed and have a crisis of confidence, or they go into a course of study that doesn’t suit them, or they get deeply drawn into a romantic relationship that cuts into their studies, or something. Most sort things out, but they are no longer at the top of their class GPA wise.
I think that there is no doubt that when you are in the middle of your class, it is a lot better to have your degree from an elite college than from a state school. The doors that open for the top handful at State U are just the same as they are for Harvard, but the doors for the rest of the class are much, much better at Harvard.
I’m not saying that picking State U is the wrong choice. It’s often the right choice. I’m only countering the chorus that seems to pop up in these threads saying it ALWAYS makes more sense to go to Alabama, or Purdue, or Delaware, or wherever, because they have an honors program. It’s much more complicated than that, even if you assume that the honors program is the equivalent of an elite college.
Sorry…then that would be %30 for Alabama and %49 for Notre Dame(admitted) and %93(enrolled)
@moscott No argument. ND has a freshman class of around 2000 students. All the students are similar in stats.
But the person in the middle of the class of a moderately selective school may not be admitted to an elite school. The middle of the class at an elite school would likely be at the top of the class at a moderately selective school.
How does a near full-ride at Rutgers compare to paying for an Ivy?
@NEPatsgirl, personally, I don’t think that 10K more each year is a big deal when comparing UMass with a top LAC. Some of those LACs give AP credit as well; possibly enough to graduate a semester or 2 early and save money that way.
@ucbalumnus: as @ThankYouforHelp mentioned, someone can be tippy-top in HS but hit a bump or two in college and falter. If you do falter, it’s better to do so at an elite college (or LAC known to be nurturing) than a non-elite public.
@Hawkace: depends on your goals, finances, etc.