It depends on:
- Which Ivy League school.
- How much you would have to pay.
- How much debt that would involve.
- What your academic and professional goals are.
- What other college characteristics you are looking for.
HI everyone, it’s the original poster here. I’m shocked by the huge response this thread has gotten! But I’ve been reading all the replies and there are a lot of good points.
@ucbalumnus why does it matter which Ivy League?
A couple of facts:
Very smart kids attend schools everywhere.
Very smart kids will do well at any school they attend if the apply themselves
Very smart people do well in careers wherever they go to school
Better prestige schools help you get your first job (sometimes), performance in that job gets your next job and salary
Those 8 schools vary significantly in factors that may be important to some students, such as academic programs and majors, size, physical environment (e.g. urban, rural, etc.), social scene (e.g. fraternities/sororities or lack thereof), political leanings, etc… It makes no sense to consider them as interchangeable schools, unless all you care about is the membership in that athletic conference.
@jssaab1, the network could actually matter for a long time after you graduate.
@purpletitan Nah, not really, an IVY league grad with subpar performance in the workplace will never get anyone to help them out, especially another Ivy league grad, they would never want to ruin those important relationships.
It an be a quick jump start but overall it matters what you do not where you went.
I went to Wharton worked in corporate jobs and no one knew where I went to school by the time I was a director level person, I even had my boss after 2 years ask me you went to Wharton right???
I went to a start-up and felt my Wharton degree would help but VC firms said I did not have any direct stat up experience, go figure
@jssaab1, obviously, how you do in the workplace matters.
Well stated.
“But the person in the middle of the class of a moderately selective school may not be admitted to an elite school. The middle of the class at an elite school would likely be at the top of the class at a moderately selective school.”
I think you misread my post. My point was that the same high school student has a very good chance of being middle of the class at either university, and if that is what happens, the student will have a world more opportunities after coming out of an elite university than they will out of a state school. There is no guarantee that you are going to crush college, no matter where you choose to go.
To me, these anecdotal stories about that one great achiever who did great things out of State U aren’t very meaningful. I went to a top law school, and yes, there were a few students there from various State U’s. They were impressive, but they were totally outnumbered by the students from Harvard, Yale, Chicago, Amherst, Williams, Stanford etc.
A couple of facts:
Very smart kids attend schools everywhere. (yes, but there are an overwhelmingly higher percentage of them at elite schools, and it makes a difference who you are around from day to day and what the general expectations are. When 80+ percent of the class is high achieving, it rubs off on everyone.)
Very smart kids will do well at any school they attend if the apply themselves (not true at all, in my opinion. Many smart people stumble in college for a while)
Very smart people do well in careers wherever they go to school (again, only sort of true. Connections matter, and the quality of the education you actually received also matters)
Better prestige schools help you get your first job (sometimes), performance in that job gets your next job and salary (this is true, you always have to perform once you get out of college. But if you want to change your career, or try something risky, it is almost always easier to do it as a grad of an elite school. You get the benefit of the doubt.)
As much as I would like to say otherwise, much of that is true.
However, it is unlikely that the chance of being in the top, middle, or bottom of the class at each school is the same. While there is no guarantee that a student attending an admission safety will be at the top of his/her class, or that a student attending an admission reach will be at the bottom of his/her class, the chance of each relative rank in class is not the same at each school.
One important consideration, beyond prestige, job possibilities and future success, is how a student will feel while in college. Anyone bright enough to be admitted to an ivy might be bored in a state school or mid-level college. Honors programs vary in quality, and many only offer a limited number of courses. After that, students take courses with the remainder of students, and may once again feel like they are ahead of their peers, just like in high school.
My son took an advanced math class at a local mid-level college while he was in high school. It was extremely easy for him and not challenging at all. He decided to take the same class when he went to college at an ivy, and it was demanding, difficult, challenging, and quite different from the one at the other college.
If a student would be miserable, feel out of place socially, or not feel challenged at a state college, and if parents can afford the costs (or qualify for financial aid), going to an elite college seems to be a clearly positive choice.
I have experience with both types of schools. Unless you limit the state schools to a very small group of state schools , there is no comparison. The differences extend way beyond prestige and networking opportunities. The mentality is different from top down. You can find exceptions I am sure. But the elite private schools are very different from 99% of the state schools. Consider the difference between state-anything and private anything.
@maggiedog & @lostaccount: A small group of state schools and certain programs at a larger number of state schools, I would say.
If you are, say, an English major, only a small number of state schools will offer an education and fellow students comparable to the elite privates or LACs.
If you are a CS or engineering major, that’s a bigger number of schools.
It depends a lot, obviously on one’s financial situation like others have said, but a lot on post graduate plans. If one is planning to go to medical/dental/law/etc school with somewhat limited funds, it may be unwise to spend a ton on a bachelor’s degree and get straddled with a ton of grad school loans.
In that situation, it’s better to go to the state school.
However if one’s plan is to only do a Bachelor’s than the Ivy is probably better because it has the name.
And also if someone is smarter than average, but not a super-prodigy, one will probably do better at the state school in terms of standing out academically.
This is purely subjective though. It’s not as if college desirability is inversely proportional to selectivity.
Some may find the atmosphere at an Ivy too stuffy, pretentious, or cut-throat, whereas the state school (or less competitive private) offers a more balanced, down-to-earth, and diverse experience. It’s all a matter of preference.
To the OP:
Depends, depends, DEPENDS.
We, as a family, were in this position twice (two kids, different paths) and made a different choice each time. So far, so good. But remember this- when finances are involved it is a whole family decision.
I assume that by “Ivy” you mean Ivy-like as well.
In some cases disadvantage students have a better ride to Ivy schools than states schools.
@lostaccount - can you provide any specifics about which state schools make the grade, so to speak, when it comes to honors programs?