^^agree. And in particular Michigan engineering grads are well represented and respected in Silicon Valley and throughout the country.
No doubt MI.
“What if you were to meet your future business partner at an ivy tommorow? The one who will help you make millions if not billions, this is more likely at an ivy school. Granted if you are majoring in Psychology or History or English, you should not, it is only worth it if you are a business/STEM major.”
I can see from your user name you are a high school kid, so you can be forgiven for believing that everyone walking around an Ivy school has some kind of magic that will turn into millions tomorrow.
@ashamed2020, another vote for ND or UMich (depending on on whether you want a smaller more supportive environment and strong alumni network but school less known for engineering or more cutting edge research and stronger representation in Silicon Valley but more sink-or-swim environment).
If ND and UMich are half-price, I don’t see a compelling reason to pay full-price for Cornell. Maybe if you are aiming for Wall Street, it’s a tough decision, but even then, I’d take the cheaper option of ND/UMich since you can get to the Street from either of those 2 schools as well.
The net price calculator give out false impression/numbers. My friend’s D goes to U Penn rist year got owsome grant ~ 35K next year drop to 25K, Junior year drop to 18K. ( Both parent retired from work) U Penn is trapping students with 1st year high grant. PS: College Board Net Price Calc is far from real don’t take it, ask real student went to the school for real #
It’s a matter of thinking, “Will I earn at least $X fees more when I eventually end up in employment by attending the Ivy than my state school?”
@scottishbritish Yes but a true cost analysis includes the amount you paid. And thrn factor in when/if the Ivy advatage becomes negligable due to performance.
Thanks to all for respectful, intelligent and well thought out responses. I just wanted to make sure my little network had not lost perspective. Everyone facing some tough decisions in the next few weeks. So many great schools. Good luck to all.
@ImPC123 your anecdotes are not very helpful. No one on these boards recommends using the College Board Net Price Calculator. We recommend going directly to the School’s web site and using the one there which will use actual school cutoffs rather than generic info. Also one family’s experience with FA will NOT fit all other situations. Each person’s finances are different and the effect on FA will also be.
I think, at least for middle-income type people, you need to put serious consideration into exactly how much debt a fully funded ivy league will put you into. If I have my figures right offhand, it’s nearly a quarter of a million dollars. I’d really chew that number over, and put serious consideration into what it means to live in that much debt.
Regarding state universities, they vary in academic rigour but I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that most of these schools have classes, if not normal then honours, that are adequately challenging for “”“gifted”"" students. Plus at the end of the day, the student(s) makes the school. Doesn’t tend to go the other way around.
Not really, unless you’re defining “middle-income” as $150,000+. For the average middle-class family, an Ivy League university may be among the most affordable options you have. And if you’re low income, it might be as affordable as some of the big merit award schools. Of course, you have to get admitted too.
One more time: Run the net price calculator at any schools you’re considering. For most families, they are highly reliable.
@leglariat, if by “middle-income”, you mean income over $200K.
And rigor also varies by major. I don’t think that the CS/engineering/science majors at the publics known for CS/engineering/science have to worry about the classes not being challenging enough.
My D chose the Ivy over not only a full ride but the school offered books, a computer and a monthly stipend. From what I see, it was the best choice for her.
Full ride. Save yourself the money!
Honestly, I’ve done some soul searching. Don’t focus on the prestige, but rather on what is offered and what is the more pragmatic decision.
Guaranteed great education and prestige with a pile of debt?
or
A possibly just as good education without as big of a worry about money?
You could use that money to buy a new laptop or car, or more stuff you could use at the State College, which is economically more tactical IMO.
All in all, it depends on the person. But I still say full ride.
I think this thread would really gain value if parents of the kids that got into the Ivy schools but went another way would started responding. Because as long as we are talking hypothetical/ middle of the class student…it is not very valuable (prepared to be stoned here…)…
@Kelowna - I’ll chime in, although we have yet to make a final decision. I am one of those parents whose DD got into an “Ivy-like” school (UChicago), which is where she’s dreamt of going but didn’t want to get her hopes up too much because it is very selective. When she got the acceptance email, it was pure euphoria over here. Yes, we knew it was a pricey education, but we told her we could make it work if it was really, REALLY where she wanted to go. Combined with a few scholarships and the college fund we started for her when she was born, she (i.e., we) would still be facing debt in the 6-figure range to get that “Ivy-like” degree.
She also got several generous scholarships to our state flagship honors program and, combined with the college fund, she could come out of undergrad debt free or maybe even ahead a little. We DON’T know how much that UChicgo will benefit her in the future (we assume there would be some benefit, but how much is unknown). We DON’T know if she’ll have any missed opportunities because of going to the U (again, giant question mark). What we DO know is she (we) can either come out with major (MAJOR) debt or debt free. She’s a smart girl - after a few weeks of moping around about how it would be a huge financial stretch to go to her dream school, she is starting to realize it might be better to focus on really killing it at the state school in undergrad and save the Ivy dream for grad school (if she decides to go that route).
We’re hoping an overnight to UChicago next week will bring much needed clarity to the situation. Stay tuned …
I would say that no undergraduate degree is worth 6-figure debt if the alternative is a free/near-free education (subsidized; by scholarships and/or taxpayers) at a major research university or decent LAC. If you have that money to spend (as well as enough in the bank for retirement and a rainy day fund), you could see it as splurging on a luxury good (in case that expensive education doesn’t actually do much for the kid), but if you go in to 6-figure debt and then something like the 2008 financial crisis hits again and the kid can’t find a job and 1-2 parents get laid off, I would say that would suck.
^^ Yes, that would royally suck!
Most middle income families will see substantial financial aid from these schools based on $50,000 to $70,000 annual incomes.
Kelowna My son was accepted to Cornell but chose University of Alabama. Net cost at Cornell was over $50K while Alabama was less than $10K. Although money is always an issue, we could afford to pay for Cornell if he wanted to go there. Initially he had decided on Cornell or University of Connecticut (Honors plus 15K merit scholarship) so we planned to visit both schools. However, after visiting UConn, he decided to go there and forgo Cornell. Net cost at UConn was little under $30K. I then suggested we go visit Alabama since the merit award was even larger and the info from the CC Alabama was very interesting.
He had applied to UA and its honors programs but was put in the reserve pool for the Alabama Honor’s highly selective research program called CBHP. He was hesitant to visit because of his misconceptions about Alabama and that he liked UConn but agreed to go visit. Since he was still in the running for a spot in CBH, we scheduled our tour of Alabama through the Honor’s College. After touring the campus, the Honor’s College, the new engineering facilities and the suite style dorms, he decided that Alabama was not at all what he thought. The CBH student guide, he labeled “hecka smart” and that he felt academically challenged next to him. All the faculty and staff that he met during the tour made him feel welcome and wanted. While visiting the dorms, he decided to save me $80K more and go to Alabama for his engineering degree. Had he decided on Cornell, it would have cost me over $200K, but going to Alabama would only cost about $40K, a savings of over $160K. Money that could be used for his graduate school or a down payment for his condo/house when he graduates.
A few weeks after the visit, he was notified that he had been accepted to CBH research program. He is doing well in school and believes he made the right choice. He has no regrets of not going Ivy. He states that almost all of his fellow students in the CBH program were accepted to Ivy and Ivy caliber schools and he tells me that none regret their decision to go to the University of Alabama.
BTW, UA’s scholarship is inflation proof and allows my son to take as many credits as he wants. Since he did so well his first semester with a standard load, he is overloading this semester with an extra 4 credit course so he can graduate in 4 years and do Co-op. His merit scholarship covers the cost of the extra credits and the value of his scholarship goes up with each tuition rise. Had he decided to do this at Cornell, it would have cost me an extra $6K each time he overloaded.