Full Ride vs other schools. What do I do?!

Parents Forum
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<p>I originally posted this in the search & selection forum, but I though I could use some advice from CC parents who definitely have more experience with college decisions than I do, considering I'm a first generation student.</p>

<p>I'm currently a national merit semi-finalist, and assuming all went well with my paper work and essays I should be a finalist come february.</p>

<p>One of the schools that I'm applying to, Baylor University, is going to offer me a full tuition, partial room/board scholarship that when combined with other scholarships will leave me with out of pocket costs of around 3k/year. This is super cheap, and naturally, I'm thrilled to get this kind of opportunity.</p>

<p>I recently visited Baylor (it's only 2 hours away), and I really, really liked it. Their honors college offers a program called university scholars that is pretty similar to Brown's "Open Curriculum" in which I could easily double or triple major. It basically wipes out all core requirements (excluding Chapel and Theology, which I am totally fine with) and allows students to take whatever classes they wish. Admission is guaranteed to NMFs, so no worries there. They also offer TONS of other perks to NMFs:Priority registration, a beautiful honors dorm building, individual advising with the best advisors they have, small classes (capped at 19), team taught classes and the like. It seems like an AMAZING opportunity, and it's really everything I've been looking for in an academic environment, especially the open curriculum.</p>

<p>Down the road, I'd really like to do foreign service work. I'd especially like to teach ESL abroad and work with NGOs and Missions. I could also see myself returning to the US at some time and pursuing an advanced degree to become a professor. I plan on majoring in International Relations and one or more foreign languages.</p>

<p>I feel like it would be hard to pursue a career like the one above if I'm saddled with all kinds of debt. It also might be hard to double or triple major elsewhere. Do I have the right idea here?</p>

<p>However, Baylor isn't necessarily the most well known or prestigious school on my list, and I'm worried this could also limit me in the future. Other schools I am applying to include:</p>

<p>USC
Northwestern
Davidson
UT-Austin
Johns Hopkins
UVA
**Maybe Yale, not sure yet..</p>

<p>Academically, I have a 4.0 GPA unweighted, a 35 ACT, I'm currently ranked 1/498 students at my school. I am in or have taken 12 AP Classes and I have recieved four 5's and one 4.</p>

<p>Some of my major extracurriculars include being student body president, a committee head for NHS, Junior and Sophomore Class President, Captain of 2 academic bowl teams, and Head of 2 student council committees. I am also a volunteer counselor at a camp for kids and adults with special needs.</p>

<p>Given my resume and plans for the future, would I be making a bad decision if I went to Baylor because it is free, close to home, offers a great academic and religious environment, lacks distribution requirements, and will likely set me up to live my life without having to worry about debt? Or should I seek a more prestigious university that could potentially open other doors for me down the road while limiting other opportunities because I may not qualify for much aid?</p>

<p>I apologize if this was super long, I just kind of had a lot to say. This has been on my mind pretty often lately and I thought I would enlist the help of this site to try and figure things out.</p>

<p>Thanks for reading! Let me know what you think!</p>

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<p>One thing you haven’t mentioned is how much your parents could pay (and are willing to pay) for a school other than Baylor. This affects how much you would have to borrow if you don’t go to Baylor.</p>

<p>You will not be fully informed about your situation until you sit down with your parents and talk about finances.</p>

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<p>I would find out what you can about Baylor while waiting to see where else you get accepted, and what types of FA you end up getting from those schools. </p>

<p>One concern I would have about Baylor would be slim pickings among upper-level foreign language classes in some of the languages that might interest you, compared to some of the other schools on your list. </p>

<p>I agree, however, that it is important to find out how much your parents would be willing to pay for another school. You do not have to decide anything before May 1, so I would suggest you fill out that FAFSA and wait and see how much aid you get elsewhere.</p>

<p>I am kind of surprised that you don’t have more schools that offer merit aid on your list. Perhaps other parents would have some suggestions? Have you already decided which languages you want to study?</p>

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<p>OP, did you not like the fact the vast majority of posters on your other thread recommending going to Baylor for free and enjoying your college life?</p>

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<p>Prestige will mean NOTHING to the people you are helping oversees. Baylor is a FINE school. Don’t get caught up in the CC hype of there are only 20 schools and the rest you will only flip burgers if you attend. Your work abroad will be infinitely more helpful securing a job as a professor then the name on your diploma. For a net cost of $3000 year, why would you even consider any of the other schools unless they can come in with a similar net cost. At 3K/year you will graduate with NO debt, NONE. Do you realize how much of a gift that will be?</p>

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<p>@Marian: We’re middle class but taking out massive (100k+) loans to pay for my brother’s college so I probably won’t get much aid and I don’t want to add to my parents’ stress too much by taking out more loans. </p>

<p>@frazzled: Is Baylor known for not having great language programs? I don’t plan on studying super exotic languages, but I know they have extensive programs in Spanish, French and Russian, and those are the three I’m most interested in. I’ve checked there website and it seems that the programs are pretty solid but let me know if you have heard otherwise.</p>

<p>@Erin’s dad: That thread started to die pretty quickly and I still want to her more feedback, so I thought some NMF parents might be more apt to find this thread in the parents forum. I’m really looking for more parental input since my parents never had the opportunity to go to college and I’d like to hear what others have to say. I really did appreciate what you and everyone said in that thread though, I’m just looking for more specific experiences. I’m sorry if this double post seemed like I didn’t appreciate the feedback I got there, because I really did!</p>

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<p>@SteveMA: That’s definitely great to hear! And thanks for bringing up the prestige traps here on CC and elsewhere. I’m posting partly because most of my prestige-obsessed friends and family (especially family, my parents and brother are practically begging me to apply to Yale) seem to be discouraging me from accepting this gift. It’s just kind of hard to reassure myself in a prestige-obsessed environment. Another part of why I posted is so that I can feel better defending myself from prestige obsessed people questioning my potential choice.</p>

<p>It’s also great to hear that abroad work could help me if I do end up back in the states to become a professor! </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>Check back with your prestige friends in about 5 years when they have 5 roommates because they can’t afford to pay rent because of their student loan debt. Maybe it’s just our area but around here people would think you were nuts for turning down what is basically a full ride. We have several kids each year turn down the CC darling schools because of full rides elsewhere.</p>

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<p>OP,</p>

<p>The more I read about Baylor, the more I think it’s a well known and respected school in many circles and I don’t believe it would hinder you at all in the future. I’m betting there are statistics out there that show where Baylor grads have gone for grad school and beyond. Maybe someone can track those down?</p>

<p>Congratulations, btw! You sound like a wonderfully strong candidate for all your schools.</p>

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<p>Why not wait and see what your actual choices are in April? That way the picture may be a bit more focused. Baylor is a great school and they appear to be offering you a wonderful opportunity. But I sense you are not quite satisfied, and are struggling a bit with the commitment. I think the worst position you could find yourself in, is to be questioning the decision during your 4 years at Baylor. Accept Baylor’s offer only when YOU are 100% sure. I do note that the stats you posted fall quite above the averages for Baylor. That could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you look at it.</p>

<p>If you are hoping to have a career in the Foreign Service, you might also consider adding Georgetown to your list. As far as I know, their international programs are the best in the country.</p>

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<p>Look, if your family is taking on significant debt for your brother, and has an income around $100K, my understanding is that the amount of money you would probably be asked to pay at Yale would probably be in the same ballpark as at Baylor. </p>

<p>IF you get into Yale, and IF you get a FA package that puts it in the same ballpark as Baylor, then you have to decide whether you prefer the advantages of Yale–and don’t let anyone with an axe to grind fool you, they are very real and NOT a matter of empty prestige–to the advantages of Baylor. Only you can make that decision for YOU, because things that you perceive as advantages–a religious environment, for example, or being close to home–others would perceive as disadvantages.</p>

<p>If you are interested in Yale, I suggest that you go ahead and apply, because it is one of a small set of schools where the FA policy is sufficiently generous for middle class families that their need-based award is likely to rival Baylor’s package.</p>

<p>

False. Totally false. You would get a job as a professor as a result of your GRADUATE work, and unless you are content to remain within the subset of Christian schools, which I believe may favor each others graduates, you are unlikely to get an academic job without a degree from a top program in your field and outstanding research.</p>

<p>I gather that when the OP refers to “foreign service” he means mission trips and the like, not the State Department.</p>

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<p>Consolation–Not false AT all. The work abroad will get him into those programs with those professors–at least that is what our friends that went that route did. They spent a couple years abroad in various fields, 2 of them being full professors and a CC darling college now-having graduated from an UG program that no one has heard of but had fully funded grad work and now possess 2 PhD’s from said CC darling school-yes, they are perpetual students :D. Both were offered numerous grad programs because of their experience abroad–ESPECIALLY in languages. Having Yale on your UG diploma will not give him a leg up–no axe to grind, just reality. There are a LOT of colleges out there and they are not all staffed by Yale grads (or other Ivy’s). It is total BS that one needs to graduate from Yale, Harvard, etc. to get into a grad program, TOTAL BS!!</p>

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<p>If you mean grad diploma, I’m going to join those who would disagree as that’s not the case I’ve heard from Profs in IR or related fields like history or poli-sci. The reputation of the top program’s diploma, quality of thesis/research, and Prof recommendations…especially from the most influential Profs in the field(s) will matter far more than work abroad for a PhD. </p>

<p>However, what you described may work for a professionally oriented masters like an MIA/MPA. Then again, those degrees aren’t usually enough to be a prof at most higher-ed institutions I know of unless it’s backed up with a PhD and/or relevant research or IR/politics experience.</p>

<p>Another thing to consider is that for all the grad programs mentioned above, reputation of one’s undergrad school and related departments will be a factor…albeit a minor one.</p>

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<p>Son had similar stats to OP.
He choose the full ride and perks at a great school (we paid room/board., etc) and we are now paying for grad school (minus merit aid there). He got a great education, did not break the bank (us) and will graduate a 3 year grad program debt free. No regrets on his part. Had a great undergrad experience educationally and socially. </p>

<p>Son also comments on his friends who have much debt (or no debt and no job) and a close friend who had to go to school X. Parents paid full cost and child feels he should should have gone elsewhere to get merit aid as his school was not worth the cost. )</p>

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<p>Prestige can affect what opportunities you get to help people overseas.</p>

<p>Working abroad is NOT ‘infinitely more helpful’ in getting a job as a professor; undergraduate and graduate degrees (where and how well you did), as well as research, publications and experience are all important.</p>

<p>I agree with the no-debt idea, and Baylor would be OK, but if you get a good financial offer from Yale, of course that’s better.</p>

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<p>Say I decide not to apply to yale or northwestern, or I get rejected from them(which is very, very likely), then what do you guys think? </p>

<p>To clarify, I’m leaning more towards teaching ESL abroad, not State Department stuff. Getting the chance to teach abroad would be a dream come true. Upon returning, I’d probably be more apt to either become a professor or high school teacher in a foreign language vs IR, since there are more opportunities there. Or I might even work as an interpreter or as someone who works for/develops community organizations to help acclimate recent immigrants to America and the English Language.</p>

<p>Also, we make around 140k (ballpark) per year, which limits financial aid possibilities even though my family will have around 200k in loans from my brother. I am really uncertain as to how I could possibly manage to graduate without a lot of debt, and I’d rather not make that 200k in debt into 400-450k. Plus he wants to go to grad school. I just can’t really see full pay as an option, and I don’t want to be tied down by debt. I feel like debt could just be incredibly constrictive.</p>

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<p>So you plan to get a teaching degree? Go to the school that leaves you with no debt at the end. I have friends who are still carrying massive undergrad loans after many years of working.</p>

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<p>OP, with your stats there is no reason NOT to apply to Yale, and if you are lucky enough to be accepted, see what the FA package they offer you looks like before deciding about Baylor. There is no need to rush into a decision at this point. You may have more viable FA options available come April 1 than you currently think!</p>

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<p>OP - You are correct, Baylor seems to offer a comprehemsive program in the languages that interest you. I would have been somewhat alarmed if you had an interest in studying Chinese or Japanese, since with your stats it is likely that you could get at least tuition remission from a school offering better programs in these languages. </p>

<p>Still, I think it might be a good idea (but not by any means essential) to have a choice among a handful of schools that will not require large loans. I agree that in your family’s situation taking out massive loans is a very bad idea, but it is quite possible that Yale would give you a very good offer if you are accepted.</p>

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<p>OP, in doing your math, you may wish to include the cost of travel Texas to Yale and back a few times a year and see if that tips the scales a bit. I am no basher of the Ivies, but Baylor has a very positive reputation here in Texas, as well as a very significant alumni asociation (we would call it a good ol’ boy network) that can really help you down the road if you return to Texas. It’s great that your hard work and diligence has led you to have these tough but very attractive decisions.</p>