<p>First off, CRNA top out at $150k, second off that requires graduate level work.</p>
<p>**** I can make $375k a year as a CTO of a medium size company, doesn’t mean its going to happen and it DEFINITELY isn’t going to happen in 4 years.</p>
<p>What you’re failing to understand is THERE IS PLENTY OF ****ING WAYS TO MAKE MONEY, a lot of them are hard to guarantee and almost all of them take more than 4 years.</p>
<p>Nothing beats 4 years of education and going into the job market with a $60k starting salary and making up to $110k with experience. </p>
<p>Also stop comparing your salaries in New York to the rest of the world, you get way more to account for your ridiculous cost of living there. Someone with a masters in CS can make just as much money as a CRNA. Difference is MCS takes 6 years, CRNA is 4 years undergrad plus a minimum of 3 years experience followed by what I assume is at least 2 years of school for your masters. All the while dealing with competition with other nurses similar to how its difficult to get into dental, medical, or pharmaceutical school</p>
<p>My mother was a nurse her entire working life. I have a sister that is a nurse. I worked as a Ward Clerk on medical-surgical wards, ICU and pediatrics. Nursing is tough and physical work and you have to deal with crap. Literally.</p>
<p>My sister makes about $110K in San Francisco where everything is expensive. That’s certainly more than starting engineer salaries. But a lot of engineers get this lottery ticket called stock options. The spouse of a friend started working at Google earlier this decade. Four years later they had their kids and relatives college bills covered and he was looking at retirement and buying a new home. I don’t know very many places where nurses work that provide those incentives. My sister would like to get her MBA and go into management. I think that her job is pretty stressful. Can you imagine taking care of a ward of patients with a staff of two or three?</p>
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<p>Please show me a job posting for such a position in Mississippi.</p>
<p>Not to mention maintaining a CRNA requires you to get recertified every 2 years.</p>
<p>Regular RN’s top out at $68k on average, Engineers start at just below that. A $68k salary in the normal world is like a $100k salary in New York.</p>
<p>And how is someone supposed to get one of these $60k engineering jobs right out of school when there are virtually no entry level engineering positions? On Monster right now, there are currently a grand total of 8 entry level engineering jobs in the entire state of NY. (and of those 8, one is an internship). On Career Builder there are NONE. I am not kidding. Look for yourself.</p>
<p>Also come back to me when you find more than a handful of CRNAs making $250k a year, bonus points if they live outside of New York and California.</p>
You never answered my question from the last thread when you talked about this. If there is age discrimination, why are there few entry level positions? You had said they want people with SOME experience, but then how do these people get SOME experience if there are so few entry level positions to get the experience from?</p>
<p>I don’t know about others, but I never really bothered too much with the job search sites when looking for a job out of school. It makes more sense for companies to go to career fairs and such to promote the company themselves. Among the 3 companies I’ve worked for, none had used those sites to recruit people.</p>
<p>Well, I guess Maryland has a better job market than NY. But all those jobs are not entry level. I caught a lot that require experience. The first navy helicopter post requires 10-15 years while the seond one requires 5-7 years of experience. Then there is a senor electrical engineer slot which requires experience. And this is just on the first page. I have not even looked at the other 5 pages.</p>
<p>“You never answered my question from the last thread when you talked about this. If there is age discrimination, why are there few entry level positions?”</p>
<p>As the research I posted shows, discrimination is more prevailant in the computer software/ hardware engineer fields, not so much the other areas of engineerng.</p>
<p>Even though I have Homer28 on my ignore list, I can still see his quoted messages.</p>
<p>Regarding no engineering jobs…</p>
<p>The engineering jobs board for my school currently has 271 current full-time job postings in their database. These aren’t jobs that have been posted forever, the oldest job posting is from July 27th. It’s not job search season either for new grads.</p>
<p>Jobs are hard to find right now, for all professions. But to insinuate that there aren’t any jobs available out there is ridiculous. You have to look in the right places, and Monster.com is NOT one of them. Look at industry organizations sites that have job postings (ASCE, ASME, IEEE, etc), not some general job site. However, these organizations will most likely have more advanced positions. A university job site, however, is going to have a lot more entry-level positions.</p>
<p>“We were given the enrollment numbers as well as the graduation rates, and both were on the decline, even as overall university enrollment was increasing… that is what I would call “Fewer college graduates are going for engineering”.”</p>
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<p>Well, according to the article below, engineering enrollment is on the rise. But maybe at the time you were a student, engineering enrollment was down so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Assuming enrollment was down, why do you think it was? If engineers are supposed to be paid so well and in such high demand, why was enrollment down? I will tell you why: because most people are like me and, when they hear engineering, they think of outsourcing and H1-B visas. I did not get my negative view of engineering all on my own. For several years, I have heard about the delcine of the industry through outsourcing/ H1B visas from the media, studies, and those in the field that I know. I guarantee you that lots of people outside the engineering profession share my sentiments. Kids ask themselves “Why should I study a field that’s moving abroad?” You can argue that the claims of outsourcing and H1B visas are exaggerated, but that is the public perception of engineering. In a 24 hour news cycle, people hear when comapanies are outsourcing tech jobs. It is no secret. </p>
<p>Well, maybe engineering is on the decline relative to colelge enrollment based on the reasons I gave. I don’t think people are turing away from it because it is hard. Law school enrollment is up 2.2%. Medical school enrollment is up. Nursing school enrollment is up. So why not engineering?</p>
<p>First, companies typically count internships as experience. Having internships while you are in school helps immensely. Like I said, I graduated in engineering last summer and know very few of my classmates who don’t have jobs. Both of my job offers that I got before going to grad school were almost right at that national average. I didn’t even do that deep of a search for jobs because by the time it hit peak season, I had already decided to focus on graduate school, so I was only doing jobs as a backup. Despite that, I still had 2 offers before I even graduated in the height of the recession as a mechanical engineer at a Midwestern school. I only know a handful of people that didn’t have a job within 6 months of graduation, and every one of them were civil engineers.</p>
<p>Second, many entry-level jobs are filled through career fairs. Monster.com doesn’t really have anything on it because the companies probably get better candidates, on average, by going straight to their target schools. On top of that, you are looking for engineering jobs in New York after you yourself commented in another post about how there isn’t much engineering in New York. Combine those two factors and, as you can probably guess, you won’t see that many entry-level engineering jobs in New York on Monster.com even if the economy was in better shape.</p>
<p>Bonh3ad pretty much explained the pitfalls of using Monster. Some employers also align themselves with specific head-hunters with some of those head-hunters have CLOSE ties with the employer (could have been a former employee or what-not).</p>
<p>Here in the DC/MD/VA area, we have these “Cleared Professional Fairs” usually held at some nice hotel. You actually meet technical managers not just HR reps because companies know that for in-demand skills and potential applicant likes to talk to folks WHO ARE WORKING ON PROJECTS. Companies with just a pretty HR woman standing there MAY get passed by applicants.</p>
<p>The way jobs are posted follow a process: Target schools (if fresh grads), then individual employer recruiting events, then multi-employer job fairs (like I mentioned) then head-hunters THEN (when you cannot find anyone)…Monster, Dice, etc.</p>
<p>Because the American Education Systems sucks at teaching math, most Engineering schools expect you to start in Calculus on your way in when most high school students haven’t even done Pre-Calculus.</p>
<p>Kids are afraid of math because “its hard”.</p>
<p>If it wants 3 years of experience, then it isn’t an entry-level job unless they are counting each internship as a year of experience.</p>
<p>I can’t imagine that you have looked at many job postings though because you likely don’t have access to the engineering career services job boards from all the major engineering schools. That is where a ton of entry-level engineering positions are advertised. Plus, you aren’t factoring in the ability to go to a career fair, talk to a recruiter, and then get an interview and get hired into a position that was then created for you. That is entirely possible.</p>
<p>Also, especially in times like these, many entry-level positions are filled directly through the internship programs. More and more these days, if you want to work for a company, your absolute best bet is to get an internship there while you are still in school. Often these people don’t even have to apply to specific job openings. Those positions are pretty much created for them and bypass some of the normal channels of recruiting. I can tell you this from experience, not hearsay.</p>
<p>That right there is two major sources of entry-level jobs that I know you don’t have access to. Stop generalizing.</p>
<p>Do you mind if I ask what your motivation is for spending all day digging up articles on and job postings for a bunch of jobs and careers that you are not even interested in or qualified for? It is simply mind boggling to me.</p>
<p>What they want doesn’t matter if the candidates aren’t out there. I saw companies looking for local engineering grads in June this year - they figured that the job market was so weak that there would get lots of applications for their openings, even as late as June. It appears that they didn’t get any applicants and were trying different routes.</p>
<p>I am starting to think Homer is not all that bad. I think I would be more annoyed if he had some real supporting data, but since he doesn’t, I don’t mind him being in the threads.</p>