My son has been admitted to Furman and Elon. Both are really good fits, but Elon is significantly more affordable. About $15K per year less. What, if any, is the benefit of attending Furman over Elon??
What is your son interested in (major/extracurriculars)? Knowing this might help to tell you about opportunities at Furman that would benefit your son. I don’t know anything about Elon, but I can tell you what were the benefits for Furman for my Ds:
D1 - Poli Sci major, pre-law; fantastic mock trial team experience. They have gone to Nationals over 10 years in a row (and are hosting Nationals in 2016). Ds team was 5th in nation her junior year. She wouldn’t have had that experience at her other college choices.
She also had a great study abroad - a semester in Belgium taking classes and working for the European Union Parliament.
D2 - Biology major, pre-med. Great pre-med advising, Biology courses were challenging but great professors. Best experience, a 10 credit “Medicine Program” which included - a course in Medical Ethics, a course in Sociology of Medicine, and 10 hours a week of medical shadowing.
She too did a short study abroad to Costa Rica
Both benefitted from the small class sizes, and the close relationships they formed with their professors.
But not knowing anything about Elon or your son’s interests, I can’t say if it is worth $60,000 more.
I posted a review of both these two schools, toured a couple days apart, in the “Southern LAC’s” thread. You might want to look at that entire thread, and hopefully my review will be of some help.
Two good schools, but, IMO, quite different in many respects.
Good luck!
Today, my son is interested in business, but as with most young students, that could change. From an overall perspective, which do you think is a better school? Reputation, alumni connections, etc.
Here is my review of Elon posted after our visit last fall:
Last stop on our “Carolina Tour”: Elon University, Elon, NC
Same format, Pro’s, Con’s and Neutral/Observations.
Pro’s: Another beautiful campus on another beautiful fall day. Matching architecture, with red brick dominant. TONS of new construction present, including a new gigantic Admissions building opening Jan 2015.
A lot of excitement on campus, enhanced by coming during Homecoming.
Best programs appear to be the Business school and the Communications school. They have two full TV studios, and produce their own programs, one of which placed second for an Emmy last year.
Very concerted effort to require/encourage internships and off-campus engagement. Large study abroad program catalogue.
A variety of Fellows Programs, including an overall Honors Fellows program and several additional school-specific Fellows, e.g., Business Fellow. These are competitive, and come with scholarships and additional requirements.
Extremely nice dorms, I mean almost over the top nice. Another parent and I were joking during the tour that these students are going to have a rude awakening when they hunt for their first “real world” apartment. The single we saw would easily run you $3K a month in a major city.
Relatively reasonable tuition. Total COA for this year is just under $42K, a substantial difference from its competitors.
Con’s:
The science facilities are disappointing, with the exception of the access to a human cadaver lab for Anatomy. The building exterior is gorgeous, the interior is, IMO, not up to par with many others toured.
The CS department–of particular interest to our S–was miniscule, with a single computer lab (at least that we could find and ID). This seemed incredible for a campus of almost 6K undergrads.
Obvious drinking/partying culture. This may be a plus to others, but when you have people drinking champagne inside the Math building, it is pretty obvious that it is an active culture here.
Campus is sprawling, and not necessarily in a good way. Buildings are scattered along one axis, and you would need a bike or leave plenty early from some parts of campus to get to classes. In addition, while freshmen and sophomores must live on campus, after that many do not, with apartments near and far. They state they want a residential campus, but they are not there yet. The cost of expanding admission classes without sufficient housing to date.
For OOS students, the Raleigh airport is a little over an hour away, but Elon does provide shuttles during breaks.
Elon, NC itself is not much to look at, and that is putting it kindly. We found a Subway, a cute coffee shop, and a gas station within walking distance. We took the time to drive around the area, and it is a big zilch. We did not tour Greensboro, which is about 15-20 minutes away, but they certainly were not talking Greensboro up during presentations.
Neutral/Observations:
Very much on the large size for an “LAC”, and they do have Masters candidates too. It feels that big, too, but the professors apparently are directly evaluated on interaction with students during office hours as part of tenure consideration. Current enrollment just shy of 6K.
Elon is clearly on an upward trajectory but is, IMO, going through some growing pains. My nickname for them would be that they are a “Veneer School” to some extent. They have spent enormous sums on fancy new buildings and absolutely deluxe new dorms, but do you need a brand new Admissions building that is 4-6 times larger than your Math, Statistics and CS building? Really? They make a concerted effort to show all the fancy new constructions, the lovely athletic facilities, this Great Hall that you could hold the UN in, but where does all that bolster your academics? I felt that they were catering to children of well-to-do parents who would like their kids matriculating into a safe, bubble environment with the very best of amenities. Elon certainly checks off those boxes. And if I had a child interested in Business or Communications, and he/she could get a Fellows appointment that would drive COA down into the low $20’s, this would be the school to look to and a bargain at that. In the end, for our S’s needs, it will not work. But that, as my departed Mother used to say, is why they make Chocolate and Vanilla, so everyone gets their own choice.
And here was our review of Furman visit, the preceding day:
Day 2: Furman University, Greenville, SC
I will stick to a similar format as our visit to Davidson, with Pro’s, Con’s and Neutral items.
Pro’s:
I thought Davidson was beautiful. Well, Furman is even more gorgeous. The best word I would use is to describe the campus is “sprawling”. They have almost 800 acres, so the buildings are generously spaced, with plenty of green space between, all filled with water features, fountains, and some of the most beautiful landscaping I have ever seen. My S described that “it looks like a resort”. There is a primary lake in the center of campus, with a large bell tower perched on a peninsula thrust into the lake.
The people, from the students themselves to faculty to staff were some of the happiest, friendliest people you could choose to meet. I picked up a distinct “laid back” vibe from the students, potentially aided that they had a short week and this was a Friday. Asked for directions, help, etc., and everyone was extraordinarily polite and helpful. Just a pleasure to be on campus.
Super organized visit process. They give a half hour information session with plenty of data, and then split the groups into walking tours of the academic, interior portion of the campus, and then golf cart tours to the extended areas of the campus. For our visit, they also added a lunch with a freshman student who shared similar interests as our S (a tremendous resource, and more schools would be well-advised to have Freshman talk to students, instead of upper classmen, since they just went through this process last year.) Then S attended a class in his intended major, then they had set up an interview with the head of that department. Simply put, THIS is what a visit should be.
Well-established “CLP”, which I believe stands for Cultural Living Program. Basically, it is a graduation requirement that each Furman student must attend 32 of these CLP programs during their years at Furman. These opportunities run the gamut, from musical performances, to incoming speakers, to seminars, etc. I thought this is a very sound idea, as it forces students to stay engaged outside their majors and the college bubble. I have not heard of a similar program at other schools, but perhaps this is not unique. Still a good idea, in my book.
4-4-1 structure, or the “MayX”. Furman has two “normal” semesters, and then has the option of taking a 3 week program in May. This can be in virtually anything, including study abroad. This would be helpful for students in majors/programs that make it hard to be absent for a full semester, giving them an opportunity to take advantage during the May semester outside of the framework of their “normal” classes.
Greenville itself was a revelation. Had never visited this city before, and it is an absolute gem. They have done an extensive, decade-long renovation of the downtown area, and now it reminds me a bit of San Antonio’s Riverwalk, on a smaller scale. We were downtown both Thursday and Friday nights, and had dinner and walked around quite a bit. Tons of great restaurants, people are all over the place enjoying the Fall weather, and it was simply lovely. S’s comment: “I didn’t know a City could be like this”.
Con’s
Cost. Furman’s COA is now over $57K. I am sure it will hit $60K by the time current seniors in HS graduate from college. However, they do give some merit aid, with a variety of options. Admissions stressed to get all scholarship applications in on a timely basis. Poor transparency on scholarship prospects, and amounts. Some schools will give either a clear idea, or strong projections on what merit aid could be expected. Not Furman. Totally in the dark for now.
Drinking/Partying/Frats: The freshman student we had lunch with candidly indicated the obvious, and that students at Furman are drinking and partying. No surprise, but I definitely did pick up that vibe on campus. Greek presence is roughly 50%. In fairness, the freshman we met did not drink, nor did several of his immediate friends, and he said there was no pressure to drink. Nonetheless, it is there, and the frats/sororities are certainly a part of this.
OOS access to the airport is decent, but Greenville is not a major airline hub, so I suspect most air travelers are going to have to make connecting flights to come into Greenville. The other option might be Charlotte, but that is roughly 2 hours away by car, depending on traffic.
Neutral/Observations
I had a sense that most kids had cars here, one estimate was 90%. I had the strong impression that people hop in cars and go home, or get away from campus frequently. Many overheard conversations about “going to the beach” and “going to the Mountains”, etc. This cuts both ways. On the one hand, it is a blessing that the school is located in an area with so much to offer. On the other hand, that takes people off campus, especially on weekends, and I am not certain based on our very brief visit how that would effect weekend campus social life.
This is an entirely visceral observation, but I think this school is a bit in transition, and not clearly set on where it wants to go. They have increased enrollment, reduced admission selectivity slightly, and-rumor has it-have decreased merit aid. So I am not sure what they are trying to do there exactly. Attract more high achievers, or increase their overall size, or become more diverse, or all of the above? Apparently they had a new president in the last couple years, so perhaps they are still sorting this out themselves.
Good luck!
Ok - I have never posted but feel I might be able to provide some input. Both schools are great and I have spent time at both. My oldest S is a junior at Elon and is in the College Fellows program. He had lots of college options with good scores, grades, activities. The Fellows program is one of the reasons he chose Elon. He is a math and statistics double major and has been impressed and has enjoyed his professors. The classroom is engaging with group projects, community service as part of the grade (statistics in the community) and he is working on a research project with one of his professors. He likes the smaller classes and has recently met a more diverse group of people than he originally thought. He was fortunate to be able to bring in a lot of AP credits. As a result he got credit for a lot of the 100 and 200 level requirements and was able to fill those slots with communication classes and will end up with a communication minor. We have been very happy with the University’s communication, stellar dorms and on campus apartments, facilities, forward looking missions, etc. The January term is a great time to study abroad or take a class you normally would not be able to fit in your schedule. Burlington is a small town, but you are about 30 minutes from Greenesboro and Raleigh if needed. If you seek it out, there are a lot of activities on campus. As far as a party scene - I think this is unfortunately typical of many campuses. There are opportunities to sccialize without alcohol and I know there are consequences for under age drinking. My S is getting ready to start the interview process for an internship with a Statistics firm so we will find out if the schooling was good. My S would recommend the school and has made some great friends.
I also have a D who is a senior in high school who has been accepted to Furman. She also has several options, and really likes Furman. She is waiting on scholarships before she makes her final decision. We have been very impressed with Furman. She liked Elon, but wanted her own school. Furman’s academics, location, feel, pre-health program, campus ministries, four year housing on campus, opportunities to be involved in many things, were just a few of the reasons Furmn is one of her top choses.
As far as tuition, Furman has a bigger price tag, but I have heard offers larger merit scholarships. A
… as a College Fellow my S received $10,000 per year, which helped. The money is good, but the best thing for him was learning how and having to do the research, and having a good professor working with him on the research. In addition there was comradery with the other Fellows in the program. Good luck with your decision.
What could you (or your son) do with the 60K saved by attending Elon? Does it mean he graduates debt-free? Or is it a down payment on a house, a year or more of an MBA if he continues in business, four new cars, fabulous travel & study abroad . . .
OP- I think Coldinminny gave a pretty good summary of the two schools. My D, a student at Furman, applied to both schools. She ultimately felt that Elon was not as academic minded as she would like. (Their dining hall is better!). She has been given many research and internship opportunities. The opportunities my D and her cohort have been given have proven to be very valuable.
Elon is less expensive but Furman might be more generous with merit money to bring the final price tag into closer range. This was the case for us.
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