<p>I think most people would agree that Swarthmore and Amherst are more comparable to HYPSM in terms of education than schools like Michigan, Vandy, ect.</p>
<p>I have been following this thread since it started (and agree with those who rank by group). It is a fun intellectual exercise, but reality is that many students DO apply to both large research universities and small LACs and must choose between them without the benefit of experience and hindsight that we adults have earned. </p>
<p>My HS senior is truly torn between UM (LSA) and Kenyon* . True, they could hardly be more different, but she is hardly alone. All her friends applied to combinations of schools like Sarah Lawrence and UCSB, Pitzer and Boston University … In fact, I can not think of a single friend who did not apply to a school of <2,000 and a school >20,000. Yes, you would think the choices between such schools would be obvious - one way or the other - but clearly that often is not the case for 17 year olds. To the extent that rankings are meant to be useful to them, and not just a matter of pride and fun for the rest of us, LAC’s should be included. If they can not, well, that shows the limited usefulness of these lists in the first place.</p>
<p>Regarding Alexandre’s point about UCLA financial stability: When we visited Michigan and East Coast schools, applicants from outside of CA could not believe my daughter would choose to leave here, and applications were up at the UCs this year. However, at our local public high school, in an affluent, educated Silicon Valley town where many people are not from CA originally, Naviance shows a significant decline (up to 50%) in applications to popular UCs over the past 5 years, and corresponding increases in applications to private schools and OOS publics. CA budget problems have affected our state schools. We get mail from private and OOS schools telling us it will be cheaper to attend, as students can graduate in 4 years, instead of the 5-6 years it can take to get needed classes at UC’s and CSU’s. Popular majors are especially impacted. Plus, some UC campuses look run down in comparison to OOS public schools. They are still great schools, but financial stability is an important consideration.</p>
<p><em>helpful advice appreciated. She originally applied to the RC but her visit showed that group was not a good “fit” for her. It seems competitive to get into other MLC’s - true?</em></p>
<p>rjk: You can play with the cross-admit tool at parchment.com. Swarthmore does tend to lose to the Ivy League, UM wins usually wins over Tulane and loses to Amherst. Fun tool, even if there often isn’t enough data available to be reliable.</p>
<p>Parchment is interesting for comparing cross admits. </p>
<p>Here are some cross admit stats I got for Michigan:</p>
<p>Vandy vs Michigan: 76% chose Vandy, 24% chose Michigan.
Boston College vs Michigan: 45% chose BC, 55% chose Michigan
Duke vs Michigan: 81% Chose Duke, 19% Chose Michigan.
Michigan vs Rochester: 57% Chose Michigan, 43% Chose Rochester.</p>
<p>pokeig, I agree with everything you wrote in #162, and I happen to have another kid at Kenyon who absolutely could not be any happier (even though even more academically challenging than he expected).</p>
<p>I also cannot think of one higher end kid in our area who did not apply to both a LAC and a public or private over 15K students, and usually a couple or more of each as well as a couple of more of the mid-size schools (3300-7000).</p>
<p>I also know kids who just got in Harvard and Yale and got waitlisted or denied at Swat.</p>
<p>I think excellent LACs vs a Michigan or even an Ivy can be excruciating choices because they each appeal to different sides/desires of the kid. Does a kid, for example, want to watch and be a fan of sports at Michigan or actually be a collegiate athlete at a Swat or Kenyon?</p>
<p>We can separate all we want into nice categories that certainly make a lot of sense, but in “real life” kids are choosing within these scenarios.</p>
<p>finalchild - my S (started in Honors program, now a soph at Ross), didn’t apply to any LAC’s; smallest was an 8000 enrollment and the others were comparable in size to Michigan - so I guess there is one kid. Its as Alexandre said, some know they want a large public, some know they want an LAC. Elite academics can be had at either. My son couldn’t be happier with the environment or the education.</p>