gay groups on campus - why should they be allowed?

College Life
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<p>I'm genuinely not trying to stir up controversy here, but i wanted to express my viewpoint and see if anyone agreed with me. </p>

<p>Basically, there was an organization fair at my school recently in which i was greatly involved since I'm the co-chair of my school's Objectivism society. There was also an event that afternoon at which about 20 organization leaders were randomly selected to give short presentations about their organizations. I was one of the ones selected and given a time slot of 4:30 PM in a pretty prominent spot on our campus. Then I got a desperate email from the organizers of all this saying that they had accidentally double-booked me with a popular gay students group and that there were no other time slots available besides 4:30. they suggested that I and the leader of that group literally flip a coin to decide who would go, and he won the coin toss. </p>

<p>I'm still bitter about this and i can't help but think that the organizers did this on purpose - I go to a liberal university (only here for the engineering program) and I'm sure they look down their noses at my organization and several others like the College Republicans, who are constantly ridiculed in the campus paper and by other media. </p>

<p>My question, in short, is this: why need exist gay students groups? I'll grant their previous relevance in a time when gay discrimination was a serious problem, but now they are little more then media for gay students to prowl for sex partners. It's basically a university-funded dating service, no matter how they try to dress it up (gay sports clubs, gay craft clubs, gay this gay that gay EVERYTHING because god forbid we underrepresent the poor gays). I don't care how you spin it, I don't care to know your sexuality - so there's no need to form a group whose sole uniting thread is that they all like to sleep with members of the same sex. I think it's just a further way for this current administration to convince us that liberalism is the way to live life, but i think a serious misjustice has been underdone - the conservative voices of our country are being drowned out in favor of a rainbow colored loudspeaker that constantly preaches tolerance, diversity, acceptance at the expense of the people who just wish that we could return to a moral foundation for the United States, the people who want to just live our lives without being told what to do. </p>

<p>anyway, I'd like serious discussion on this, and avoid getting emotional and using pathos. what are your experiences with gay groups on your campus, and, like mine, are they overrepresented?</p>

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<p>Same reason I don’t like objectivism but still think it should be allowed–people should be allowed to congregate and forms groups based on common interests, assuming that no one is being hurt in the process. I think objectivism is a hollow, soulless, and unrealistic philosophy, but you’re fine to get your own group to talk about whatever you want to. Why wouldn’t gays?</p>

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<p>Overrepresented? Do you mean in comparison to the other groups on campus? At my college, no. They receive as much attention as they put into the club, which is nowhere near enough to overshadow the other clubs on campus. I also attend one of the top 10 most liberal colleges in the US, so I’m a bit doubtful that this group’s presence is quite as overwhelming as you make it out to be.</p>

<p>Why do these groups exist? Believe it or not, discrimination against homosexuals still exists. Many students do not come out until college, and those without the support of the community often find it much more difficult to adjust and be comfortable with themselves. These groups definitely serve good causes.</p>

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I understand your frustration, but it’s pretty difficult to rig a coin toss. It seems as though it was an honest mistake, so let it go.</p>

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<p>Do you know how ignorant this thread sounds?</p>

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<p>I think the only reason you’re asking this is because you are, as you put it, still bitter. Why shouldn’t they be allowed? It doesn’t take much searching to see that there is still discrimination against the LGBTQ community. Besides, I’m sure that for many gay people, it can be difficult finding people out there that are ‘like you’. There are clubs for black people, latin clubs, and political clubs among others. Why shouldn’t there be one for gay people?</p>

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<p>No question about it. It should be allowed.</p>

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<p>It’s still a serious problem, and gay youths and adults are still often rejected by their families and the victims of violence, ostracism, and suicide. A disproportionate amount of homeless youth identify as being gay, bisexual, or transgendered, and cite their family’s issues with their sexuality as part of the reason. </p>

<p>[Gay</a> and homeless: In plain sight, a largely hidden population - Los Angeles Times](<a href=“http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/12/local/la-me-gay-homeless-20101212]Gay”>Gay and homeless: In plain sight, a largely hidden population)</p>

<p>I’ve attended the GSA at my school and it certainly isn’t a place to “prowl for sex partners.” The organization holds meetings to discuss issues that they’ve experienced being gay (family issues, etc.) or to offer support as allies. A few of my good friends, gay and straight, are members. I’d say a third of the membership isn’t even gay, and the president is straight and engaged. So that debunks the whole thing about the uniting thread. The thing that they all have in common is that they care about gay rights and advocacy. </p>

<p>I definitely don’t think there’s a case of over-representation. At all three colleges I’ve attended there has been one GSA type of organization with similar goals. In fact, as far as comparing the number of people who are gay on campus with the proportion of groups that are gay advocacy related, they might have even been a little underrepresented at schools I’ve attended. If you consider estimates that 2-3% of the population is gay, you could argue that at least one in 50 to one in 33 student organizations should be gay-rights oriented.</p>

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<p>They can have the groups if they want, I don’t see a problem. Petition to create a “Straight” club if you want. Bet you’ll make the news if they try to stop you.</p>

<p>Funny, reminds me of a story. “Club fair,” and my girlfriend and I happened to be in the building it was taking place in. We found it funny that the Campus Christians were put right next to the Gay-Straight Alliance. Now, we had “been” to some of the Christian meetings; they met in an open area we went to to study, and we were roped into some of their discussions (they were Protestant, we are Catholic, we heard some people questioning whether Catholicism was Christian or not, we got involved). So the girl watching the Christian booth asks us to watch it for her so she can go get something or other. Right as we sit down, a campus organizer comes over and tells us we have to pick everything up and move; the Gay-Straight Alliance is complaining. This middle aged woman comes over to us and acts all happy saying she wants to create an environment for her (college) son different from his high school, and has had bad experiences with Christians. I, a Catholic, inform her that Christianity is a religion of love and not hate and that we have no problem whatsoever being stationed next to them. “Oh, well, I’m Jewish, so I love everyone!” Punctuated with an understood “Now ■■■■.” Apparently the college organizers didn’t feel that the complaining party should be the one to move. I wasn’t even a part of this club, and I had to move all their stuff.</p>

<p>Where do they move? Why, instead of Christian and Gay clubs side-by-side, they now face each other across a gap. Wow, just turned into a showdown. Oh, look, the girl is back; explain what happened and leave. I was pretty mad about this; not even at the students, but at that *****y mom.</p>

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<p>Excuse me, I’m still groggy from March in March but I’ll attempt to answer your question as politely as possible.</p>

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<p>You mean like…now? Right now? The discrimination that’s still going on, right this very minute, today? You know it’s still happening right now, right? If you didn’t, where were you during the entirity of the Prop 8 fiasco (the one that’s still going on).</p>

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<p>Cause gays think about sex 24/7 and want to plow anything and everything we see right? Our sexual control is in the toilet and we’re basically horny all the time. I’m sorry you just caught me between fap sessions. </p>

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<p>So don’t care to. Nobody’s forcing you to. This was just an unfortunate thing that happened. I’m not forcing you to know, what I’m forcing you to do is grant me equal rights, nothing more.</p>

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<p>What about groups whose sole uniting thread is that they all like Captain Kirk, or Picard? Or based on the color of their skin? Or that they like anime? Or that they’re Young Republicans? Why make groups whose sole uniting thread is their commonality about one thing?</p>

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<p>Hon, this might be the sleep deprivation and with all due respect… don’t try to use phrases you can’t understand. “Serious misjustice has been underdone” is not a phrase. And besides, you’re aware of the sort of misjustice done to the LGBT community on a daily basis… right? </p>

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<p>The conservative voices are being drowned out because they have nothing relevant to say anymore, to be perfectly honest. Their arguments against LGBTs… well, first off they keep using the same tired old lines, and those arguments have been discredited by academia, Psychological studies, Sociological studies… I could cite specifics if you come back with specific arguments but there’s quite a bit to go through otherwise.</p>

<p>Besides, what’s wrong with tolerance, diversity, and acceptance? You say it’s at the expense of people who wish to return to the moral foundation of the US… I hear these “return to the way it used to be” things constantly from the conservative anti-gay shill machine that it’s not even funny anymore. You have to understand, that’s a finely coded buzzword, what it really translates to is “When foreigners, women, and gays knew their place” it’s a really racist, sexist, homophobic sentiment. You might not have meant it that way but… that’s really honestly what that “return to a simpler time” rhetoric means.</p>

<p>You seem like you’re probably a genuinely nice person so I’m not ripping into you like I would be if I thought you were actually homophobic. But you’ve been fed a line by your parents, Young Republicans, and other groups. You need to educate yourself about the LGBT community and their struggle and not buy into all the misinformation you’ve been told. Learn on your own what the truth is.</p>

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<p>Gay clubs are important because LGBTQ discrimination is still prevalent. Furthermore, they give LGBTQ students support. Often when someone comes out they don’t know anyone else who is LGBTQ, and clubs are important so they can realize that they aren’t alone. There’s actually a lot of discrimination that goes on, and the clubs are important for people to get into the LGBTQ community. I don’t think most LGBTQ people join clubs just to find a partner, though that could be a secondary motivation for some. LGBTQ rights are also a political issue, and there are all sorts of other political clubs on campus that exist to campaign or give information to its members about conferences or political rallies.</p>

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Why would they do it on purpose? Even if they let their political views affect this type of thing, wouldn’t they not want the ~50% chance that the gay group lose and get mad about discrimination, just as you are now? Someone made a mistake and someone was going to get screwed over one way or another.</p>

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What moral foundation? Name a decade, any decade, I’ll name half a dozen human/civil rights violations by the US during that time. The foundation of the US included slavery, mind you. And only rich white men who owned large amounts of land could vote.</p>

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<p>Yea dude you’re not gonna win this argument.</p>

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<p>…few things: </p>

<p>1) As Itachirumon already wrote, “misjustice was underdone” simply does not make any sense.
2) You apparently don’t understand what “no true Scotsman” means. I read through the whole thread twice and no one thus far has used that fallacy.
3) Being homosexual is a choice, but liking Captain Kirk is not?</p>

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Yet you disagree with their belief that homosexuality is not a choice, but as ingrained as your heterosexuality:

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<p>You also argue that this movement is not about rights, as indicated by your use of quotation marks:

Here are a few of the differences between a civil union and marriage:

So this is a matter of rights.</p>

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And I am sure they are quite tired of you trying to shove your conservative views down their throat. There are two sides to every situation; I suggest you educate yourself.</p>

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<p>I’m not too sure what you think should be changed. You made this thread and people disagree with you, though no one here has proposed that you shouldn’t be able to make threads like this. You’re legally entitled to make all the pro-heterosexual marriage statements you want, just like gay people are allowed to talk about their being gay. </p>

<p>Your argument seems to be predicated upon the fact that your views are correct prima facie, while alternative views are “propaganda.” The truth is that, in a society of free speech, your views have no more right to said than any others (excepting those that advocate violence, etc.). If you’re objecting to people rejecting your views…well, you’d better find a better way to back them up.</p>

<p>Also, you should take that guy’s advice and try to make a “straight” group. You’ll probably have few friends on campus, but hey you have the right.</p>

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<p>I’m not going to seperate this out and address each part but, I’ll drop the pretense since I was wrong, and you’re a bigot.</p>

<p>As buriedale said, nobody’s used the “No true Scottsman” fallacy in this thread. You saw me use that the other day and you thought it was a “Big phrase” and decided to co-opt it even though you don’t know what it means.</p>

<p>Homosexuality is NOT a choice. I don’t care what you 'believe" it is, frankly. Who are you? Are you an expert in Psychology? Are you? Are you majoring in human sexuality? Where’s your qualification that makes your “belief” about homosexuality fact? You are entitled to your opinion, NOT your own facts. What you’ve just now said is akin to me saying “Well… you know… don’t care that the science says women don’t lose IQ every time they orgasm, I don’t want a woman orgasming her intelligence away” or “You know, I believe non-whites are inferior to whites genetically” it’s the SAME THING. I don’t care if you think it’s not, it IS. </p>

<p>I’m pretty sure from just a cursory glance at the history of Malthus that you don’t really know what he was on about and just wanted a chance to call LGBTs an “immoral lifestyle” – newsflash sweety, it’s not a “lifestyle” and that’s part of the propaganda. </p>

<p>I love how you say gay “rights” like you have just no idea whatsoever what we’re talking about when we say that. But I’m busy, so I’ll let zchryevns sort you out on just where you’ve gone off-base on the whole “rights” issue</p>

<p>Here’s the biggest irony, you know how you’re saying you’re tired of people exploiting your emotions and your “virtue” (nice diction there King Arthur, are you gonna be the guard of some bachelorette’s heart?) what you accuse us of doing? That’s the anti-gay’s entire schtick. Pathos appeals and misinformation, that’s all they have. </p>

<p>You’ve been brainwashed hon, by the adults around you. They have you believing lies, you need to see the cure or you’re gonna get a really nasty wake-up call when you get out in the real world.</p>

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<p>If you the club you lost the coin toss to was a breakdance club you would be saying “why does there need to be breakdance club?” roflz</p>

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<p>Ya’ll getting ■■■■■■■.</p>

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<p>God the OP is an idiot. The reason that there are LGBT groups on campus is to make them feel comfortable there, not to look for sex partners. They talk about their experiences and share stories. They can’t walk down the street holding another man’s hand without getting funny looks. They still get ridiculed for who they are if you didn’t know. The least we can do is to have a LGBT club on campus. Just because someone took your time slot you think that LGBT groups on campus shouldn’t exist? How stupid.</p>

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<p>this thread is gay</p>